Episode #22:The Mushroom Experiment, Male Body Image Issues, And Churches Vs. Divorcees With Jeff Nesbitt (Host Of The Ramble By The River Podcast)


The Ramble by the River podcast is hosted by none other than Jeff Nesbitt!!! Jeff has been podcasting for quite some time and he brings a unique passion and flavor to the table that I resonate quite well with. In this interview we talk about how Jeff got kicked out of church for getting a divorce, how hypnosis plays into church services, male body image issues and Jeff’s mushroom experiment in the Crack Shack. 

INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to):

·      Jeff’s Recount Of Getting Kicked Out Of Church For Getting A Divorce

·      The Inspiration Behind The Ramble By The River Podcast

·      The Value Of Podcasting

·      Why It Is Important To Separate God From The Church

·      How Hypnosis Plays Into Church Services 

·      The Pandemic And Maintaining Connections 

·      Male Body Image Issues

·      The Family Gratitude List

·      The Marshmallow Test 

·      Jeff’s Mushroom Experiment In The Crack Shack


Website & Podcast: https://ramblebytheriver.captivate.fm

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jeff.nesbitt.9619/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/rambleriverpod

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ramblebytheriver/



·      Pray Away Documentary (NETFLIX)

       – https://www.netflix.com/title/81040370

       – TRAILER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_CqGVfxEs



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You’re listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to. And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right. At the end of the day, my name is De’Vannon and I’ll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world. As we dig into topics that are too risqué for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what’s really going on in your life.

There is nothing off the table and we’ve got a lot to talk about. So let’s dive right into this episode.

Jeff: Ramble by the river podcast is hosted by none other than Jeff Nesbitt. Jeff has been podcasting for quite some time. Now when he brings a unique passion and flavor to the table that I personally resonate well with. You all will too. And this interview, we’re going to talk about how Jeff got kicked out of his church for getting a divorce, how hypnosis plays into church services, male body image issues, and [00:01:00] Jeff’s mushroom experiment in the crack shack.

Y’all that right? There was a hoop and is totally worth sticking around to listen, to enjoy the show.

De’Vannon: Jeff, thank you so damn much for coming on to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast.

Today. I say that with my church finger up, like the ushers would have in church on a Sunday morning. It is so glad to have you. How are you doing my friend? 

Jeff: I’m doing fantastic. Thank you so much for having. 

De’Vannon: Well, of course, it’s only the polite thing to do, and I am a Southern Belle. You know, you had me on your show and, and of course I would have you upon mine.

I wouldn’t dream of having it any other way. And I’m perfect. Now your show is called ramble by the river. And I want you to tell us where you came up with that name, [00:02:00] the flow of your show and why you were inspired to call it that. 

Jeff: All right. So yeah, first of all, thank you so much for having me on the show.

It’s been a pleasure already, and I think it’s going to be a good episode. And I had you on my show last week, because as you mentioned, and it was really fun. So my show ramble by the river has been going out since January of 2021. And it started because I have a job where I spent very much of my time by myself, and I really enjoy connecting with people. It wasn’t something I was getting in my day-to-day life and I started to miss it and I really just needed that connection.

So I started trying to pursue different avenues of creativity, like. Just music was one of them. And just trying to find what was going to bring me some kind of satisfaction. And I’ve, I’ve been listening to podcasts pretty often since around 2015. And by pretty often, I mean like [00:03:00] every day for several hours, because I’m driving all the time and by myself, so you can really click in and engage to some content when it’s just you and nothing else.

And so, yeah, I ended up getting my favorite podcasts, which I’ll shout them out right now, or the king of the staying with Brendan Shaw and Theo Vaughn at one that one’s great. Feel Von is in general. Very good. He’s got another one called this past weekend. He’s a comedian from California. He’s actually from Covington, Louisiana.

So he’s down there from where, from where you’re at.

He’s let’s see who else we get. Aubrey Marcus podcast is one that I like a lot. He’s he’s pretty cool. Joe Rogan obviously is like the godfather of podcasting, mark Marin, just, you know, the classics. And so I would basically felt like I built these relationships with these content creators who I already mostly knew through traditional media forms, like TV shows, movies, things like that, a lot of standup comedians.[00:04:00]

And I just really started to like, the medium podcasting is different than anything else because it’s long form. And I got so used to trying to communicate. Who I was through 140 characters or through a picture or through one Facebook post and especially in a climate of everybody, just bitching constantly about what other people post on social media.

So I just felt very self-conscious because no matter what you post on those short form platforms, you’re going to be misinterpreted by somebody. If it’s worth even reading in the first place. If it’s, if it’s just boring as fuck in the first place, no one even cares. You’re not even going to get any traction on it.

And then if you’re a little provocative to try to get a little bit more attention, then you’re going to hurt somebody’s feelings or piss somebody off, or create a disagreement with somebody. And it’s just not a good way to communicate. It’s not effective. It doesn’t create that sense of community that we’re all looking for and that we all need.

It does actually quite the opposite. It [00:05:00] creates division and polarization and increases some of the tribalism that is causing havoc in our political system today. So I didn’t want any part of that. And I really, I really have never liked social media. So it’s, I mean, I like the idea of it. I liked it back in the very beginning days, like 2007, when it was like almost anonymous and it wasn’t all talking to other platforms before Twitter and Facebook and Instagram all connected.

It seemed better to me, but I digress. I didn’t like those forms as a way to express who I am. And in this digital world, you have to do that. That’s where we’re living now. Especially during the pandemic, we are essentially living in a simulation. We’re getting in, we’re jacking into the system every day.

We’re going to work through our computers. We are living digital. And I wanted to do that in a form that could actually capture the most accurate representation of who I really am. [00:06:00] And I think that’s podcasting because it’s just a, it’s a, it’s a time capsule of your thoughts and opinions of that moment, because it’s not always researched fully.

It’s not always supported with evidence. I like them to be ideally they will be, but a lot of the time it’s just raw. It’s emotional stuff. Just pouring out of you and anybody can do that once you open the tap and just try not to feel super vulnerable, it’s, it’s pretty therapeutic.

So after that I was like, all right, I’m going to start a podcast. And Buddy who lived right down the road. I grew up with also named Jeff and I’m not, and hit him and me both kind of battle with depression. So it’s something we’ve dealt with since like middle school. And we’ve been friends for a very, very long time and we both deal with it and we recognize that each other.

So we’ve kind of talked with each other about it that entire time. And so [00:07:00] winter time, as most people who struggle with depression know winter time is the rough time. That’s when stuff starts to get harder and you have to work a lot harder to stay. Just keep your head above water. It’s dark, it’s cold.

It’s wet. It’s just like, it’s a wet blanket on your soul, a Pacific Northwest winter. So we’re like, let’s start a podcast. Jeff and Jeff Inc. And which is like our pretend fake company that we started in fourth grade. So we started getting stuff together and he’s a fishermen commercial fishermen. So pretty quickly he was, he was having to go work.

And so I was out here building the studio and I did, I, the majority of it by myself, I painted this mural, I, which wraps all the way around the room. And I. Put in quite a few hours on the studio and it came together and I was like, well, [00:08:00] shit. Now I have a podcast studio. I better start a podcast. So I started workshopping names and I just keep a list in my phone.

Every time I would think of one or something clever came up, I’d put it in the phone. And by the time I had around 50 names, I thought, okay, one of these has to work and I had a hell of a time picking because I wanted something that was memorable, but also kind of fit the style is just like, it’s tough.

So you, you also have a really good name by the way. I meant to compliment you on that. Yeah. So ramble by the river came from, I wanted to use the word ramble just cause I think it’s a catchy word and I was like that song ramble and man, and I think it’s the, all my brothers, I don’t know. We’ll get a copyright infringement if we sing it.

But Yeah, from there, I buy a river, I tried it out and I liked the logos and I went with it. Plus I always kind of felt like this is my training wheels into the world of podcasting [00:09:00] because I, when I started, I didn’t know how to podcast, I just started. And so I set a goal of accomplishing 50 interviews in the first year, and I needed a show to do that with, so that’s how ramble by the river was born.

De’Vannon: And so it is, I’m so glad that you gave birth to it. I bet you looked great when you were preggers.

And so I I love everything that you said, and I, I feel like that even though like the guests that come on, a lot of our shows that may not have. Have like a, I want to be like a doctor, have some sort of acronym behind their name to necessarily justify their experience. I feel like that the guests experience is the most justifiable of all, because a person’s lived experience to me, outweighs a PhD or an MD [00:10:00] or anything like that.

And so for somebody to come on my show, I don’t care if they have, you know, you know, a PhD or anything like that, they have to have had, you know, gone through something themselves, at least, you know, especially like from episode nine, moving forward, because that’s when I took over, you know, production and recruiting and everything myself.

And so because that’s what I want to know about, you know, that’s, my audience is trying to hear, you know, know, you know, which one did you go for? We need, we need to hear about that because people will. When they people feel like they can relate to a person, you know, then they will listen to them. And it’s easy to relate to somebody who’s been divorced.

Who’s been kicked out of church. Who’ve been slapped across the face, or who’s had the whip of bitch ass at some point, you know, it check all 

Jeff: those boxes. 

De’Vannon: Right. And so, as opposed to somebody with a PhD, because less people [00:11:00] have PhDs than do, but Mo everybody has had a bad day, you know, or has gone through a terrible experience or has, you know, a little skeleton tap dancing in their closet.

They may not want somebody to know about, you know, or hadn’t learned exactly how to kill that bitch yet, or just let him out so he can just twirl for fuck’s sake. And so that, and then I’ll also like, like he referred to podcasts as a time capsule. I agree. I felt like every episode we record. When we write blogs books, we keep a website, you know, those things that write music and things like that, you know, those intangible electronic things will outlive us, you know?

And so once we you know, as long as the earth remains, you know, these platforms are going to be here because there’s so much money in it. And so much people doing it, you know? You know, so once we’re all like dead and spirits floating around doing whatever the fuck [00:12:00] spirits do you know, this work will still be here.

So in future generations, when people come along, who is going, going through the same shit, cause everything kind of seems to happen these generation over again, you know, then they’ll still be able to hear what we have to say. And our voices will be heard. We are eternal until there is no more earth. And so to agree, that’s a great reason to have started your podcast.

And I’m glad that you have it. 

Jeff: Yeah. I mean, you could go to a Tupac concert in 2018 because they recorded his voice. They recorded his, his physical form and, and they’re reproducing it digitally. That’s that’s exactly the same thing. It’s just, we’re trying to become immortal essentially. 

De’Vannon: And, and, you know, and I appreciate the transparency because, you know, you didn’t go have your personal experiences, which we’re about to get into some of those and go, you know, achieve your successes with that, and then go [00:13:00] run off and have your happy, successful life, you know, taking time to talk about that, to help somebody else.

That’s a huge thing because you know, like in the Bible, you know, Jesus heals those seven lepers, I think it was. And then most of them skipped off, you know, where joystick and seedsman what they had received, but only one came back to give things. And so to me, every episode, you know, you record is a way of giving thanks, you know, for the blessings that you have and everything like that.

So I look at it as a project of gratitude. 

Jeff: That’s so exactly what it is. I pray every time I do one of these things before I do it, but I just, I will know what to say. And if I don’t know what to say, that it comes off at least as funny so that people can get some benefit out of it. But yeah, I think that a lot of what I do every day is, is practicing gratitude.

I love my life and I didn’t always love it. And so I appreciate the contrast. Okay. 

De’Vannon: Absolutely. And we’re going to talk about [00:14:00] your your family gratitude list and stuff like that later on. So for now I want to get I want to get more into your history, like with the cherishes, you and I both have an interesting relationship with the church and.

This concept of Christianity here in America. Now I know that you were kicked out for some things that happened. I want you to tell her story. 

Jeff: Yeah, happy to. So kicked out is probably a little bit strong of a term. I don’t want to talk down on the church at all or anything, but essentially I had been teaching a Sunday school class for kids for a few years, and I don’t want to my own horn, but I was fucking good at it.

And so, you know, just showing up every Sunday, just kind of killing it as a Sunday school teacher, the kids love me. I really I was doing the Lord’s work and. My marriage was not going great, which, you know, wasn’t surprising to anybody, including the pastor who married us, [00:15:00] who subsequently asked me to please not teach Sunday school class anymore because I was getting divorced and he thought it was going to set a bad example for the kids.

And I, I disagreed, I still disagree because that was like my church family. And it as even I tried so hard, I was, I was understanding and I just, it hurt my feelings. It really, it really kinda was just like thing, I guess. I, because I had thought that I was providing more value to the church family than just like sending an example of a, what a good marriage looks like.

There are other facets of the human experience that I, that I felt like I was still doing. Okay. That one part of my life was falling apart. And I guess that was enough to make me not. Role model. I don’t know. It wasn’t, I, the justification for it was, was not really my concern. After that point, a lot of people were like, oh, you should have fought that or gone back, but it wasn’t, I don’t want to [00:16:00] do that.

I don’t want to force myself into any place. It’s like this podcast, if you don’t like it, turn it off. I don’t care. I’m just trying to be me. But and I have stuff to share. So I that’s, I was trying to do that and it didn’t work out. So I haven’t been back to that church since, but I heard, I hear good things about it.

I know it’s grown and I hope I wish them the best, but yeah, it was a sad, sad moment. I haven’t really found a good church home since then. And that sucks. I like, I think the community is, is crucial and church, whether you’re fully onboard with the faith aspects of it or not. It’s a really good exercise in, in human connection.

I think like even going to church that you don’t traditionally follow the religion. It’s it’s. Interesting experience to put yourself through that. Cause they’re weird. 

De’Vannon: Cause they’re weird. Yeah. They’re weird. 

Jeff: If you go into a church and you’ve never been to church before and they’re speaking in tongues or, or they’re wearing dresses [00:17:00] and given piece of price, I mean there’s some baffling shit going on at church and I grew up with it.

So I didn’t realize how silly it seems to those who haven’t been indoctrinated, but look at it through fresh eyes and you’re like, okay, this is all equally baffling, every religion. So it’s like, I don’t know. I’m, I’m really not critical of people’s faith because everybody’s just searching for meaning and people find it in different places.

De’Vannon: I’m sorry that happened to you, Jeff. And although you, you don’t want to talk bad about your church. I will, they can eat a Dick and, and I would extend the middle finger to them. 

Jeff: That’s not Christ-like 

De’Vannon: no, it isn’t, but you know, I’m not a spirit and I’m not Jesus Christ. So I don’t, I’m not being Christ like all the time.

So I just stepped in the flesh for just a moment. Now I’m back out of the flesh. 

Jeff: And so I appreciate you sticking up for me. I 

De’Vannon: won’t do it. [00:18:00] I know like, you know, you know, there are people out there who. You know, maybe they don’t cuss as much as I do or they won’t do, you know, things like what I just did with flipping off churches and what not.

And I’m happy to do it for them, you know, because it just needs to be done sometimes. And you know, I’m aware of my spirituality and my power in Christ and the holy ghost and all that. And I’m also very grounded in the fact that I’m still a human and I just, you know, you know, every now and then, you know, a bitch’s ass might need to get up and they might need to get flipped out.

I flipped out out or something like that. And I’ll pray about it later, you know, and then it’ll be all right. And so, and I feel great. And so this is a huge thing that I want to take some time that to, to marinade here because. There’s many people who’ve been kicked out of churches. We’ve only seen a few of the accounts on the news for various reasons.

You say kicked out as a strong term. But like when [00:19:00] I was, when I was technically removed from ministry at Lakewood, because they found out that I was LGBTQ and therefore unfit to serve in the adult choir or around children anymore, you know, then nobody specifically said, don’t come back to the church, but Jeff, you know, the feeling, once you throw somebody out of something that meant so much to them, like you said, I just wanted to come and share my gifts.

You know, there was, you know, and now I can’t do that here. You dislike it. It’s like getting a divorce. It’s like, it’s like being married and getting a divorce, but then trying to stay in the same house. 

Jeff: Yes exactly. It’s a 

De’Vannon: rejection, you know, you’re not going to do that. Now. Now the church in their arrogance thinks that Y you, you, you probably can, if not, should just come on back and sit through a service, you know, like nothing’s changed, but everything’s changed because they made you look like a heretic, [00:20:00] you know, in bad and terrible.

And they took one thing that they didn’t like, and they let that overshadow all of the great and fabulous things that you had been doing, you know, nevermind your work ethic, consistency, qualifications. And actually, it seems like you were called by God to be doing this. As you said, you were damn good at it.

Well, the only way that happens is if the Lord is with you, you know? And so, you know, in terms of like your effectiveness and actually reaching people and connecting, like, it sounds like you were, and so. Humans decided that you have reached a, a stumbling block in your life or at impasse or a rough spot.

This is the priority. And this now defines you what fuck them, because they don’t get to pick that. But see, this happens to a lot of people. And like you said, you never really found a good church again. You know, it was a [00:21:00] long, long road. Like, I don’t know, 10, 15 fucking years before I found what I was comfortable.

You know? And again, that sort of break up of is, is catastrophic to somebody, you know, in, in the, not only us, but also people, our friends who have watched us get kicked out of allies, both, both LGBTQ allies were even friends of straight people like yourself. Who’ve been kicked out. They go, it didn’t happen to them, but they’re like, look at what you did to my friend.

I’m not fucking with churches either. You know? And so. What would you say to people who who have been kicked out of churches before removed from ministries, you know, in the, in the friends and allies of those who have watched this happen to people who they know are good people and could, could not understand why the church was being so antagonistic, 

Jeff: I would say to try to find God where you can.

And like I said before, that does [00:22:00] not look the same to everybody. And God doesn’t even mean the same thing to everybody. To me, God means one thing. But to my, like my mom, it means a completely different thing. And so I was raised very. I, I was hesitate when I say I was raised very religiously, but I was, my mom is a very religious woman and she believes completely in the doctrine of the Christian Church and not the Catholic church, which is like the old Christian Church, but like contemporary American Christian Church.

And it’s where I grew up in a, it was called well, let’s see, it was a community church, but. Denominationally. It was kind of like an evangelical, so it was big and showy and the music was everything. And lots of speaking in tongues and it’s, so I go back and forth on that. So because of that early exposure to that kind of culture, I am extremely hesitant [00:23:00] to get involved in any kind of group hypno, hypnosis, bullshit.

Like everybody puts your hands up or everybody do that. I don’t like any of it. I’ll barely do the wave at a football game. Like you try to get me to do a chant with hand motions, fuck off. I’m not doing it. You’re not hypnotizing me because I understand psychology. That’s what’s really going on is you’re you’re engaging in a map mass hypnosis.

And so when you do that and you’re bonding your consciousness with all the. People in the collective consciousness, under a banner of some kind of greater purpose, it’s extremely powerful. And you open yourself up to all kinds of manipulation. And so it’s just, that’s not to say that every time those tools are used to open your operating system, that doesn’t mean that every time that happens it’s for malicious means, but it does mean that that’s always a possibility.

So I’m skeptical. And when they, you know, people are, I love to see people [00:24:00] praising God and worshiping and stuff, but when they bring out the basket of ribbons and the ladies are twirling them and, and your people are speaking in tongues and falling over and stuff, it, I start to really feel uncomfortable.

So yeah, I don’t know. I, I can appreciate spirituality. And at the same time, I understand that it has a lot of power to control and. Corrupt people. So I’m really skeptical of, of really, really highly emotional groups of people, I guess, is probably the best way to say it. On the other side of that my father was not a highly religious man.

He tried really hard, but deep down, he’s kind of a thug and kind of at times criminal and just, he was kind of an abused child and he led a very difficult life and he taught me the way of the world was to protect yourself and everybody’s out to get you. You’ve got to learn how to fuck them before they fuck you.

And [00:25:00] so I had this strange, just the juxtaposition of the turn, the other cheek mentality coming from my mom where, you know, put yourself last, be humble. The. Be humble, be the servant to the world. And then on my dad’s side, it was like, take care of yourself, protect your family, get yours. Don’t let somebody make you their bitch, just, you know, get out there and set yourself up for success as a human being.

And so those are two very far points from each other on the whole spectrum of existence. And so I landed smack dab in the middle. So I feel like I’m kind of a unique perspective and it definitely shaped the way I see the church. And to get back to your question, but what, the way I would tell a person to handle that situation where they’ve, they’ve seen people in the church doing things that they shouldn’t have done, or they, somebody they trusted let them down or they’re.

I mean, [00:26:00] there is always going to be those times because we’re all human and we all make mistakes. And as much as we want to think of religious figures as above suspicion, they’re fucking not. They’re just humans too. And they get into flesh and they like titties and they liked sex and he liked drugs and they like all the same stuff we like.

And they honestly, they like stuff. That’s a little bit naughty, just like humans. Everybody’s a human. So I really try to separate God from the church, from the people in the church, because I think all three of those are very separate and distinct things. So I would, I would just suggest that people look for God somewhere where he is, because he’s not in every church.

And he is in every, I mean, he’s in everything. He is a, is a bad term, but God is everywhere. God is what holds the universe together. And that’s what I believe in. I think that if you open your heart and look for God, you can find him in very unexpected. 

De’Vannon: I concur.[00:27:00] You don’t necessarily need a physical building in order to communicate with the Lord.

As the Bible says, in my understanding that he is as near as a very air that we breathe. And so there’s no need to go searching about, you know, he’s already there, it’s a matter of your awareness and tapping into his presence. And then I agree, God is not in every church in the sense that his love is not necessarily being expressed there through the people in charge and running, things like that.


Jeff: some, you could feel it and in the building, you can feel it when you’re there. Like you can tell when the, like, this group of people is United to help the world. And sometimes this group of people doesn’t give a fuck about what’s going on outside these walls. 

De’Vannon: Right in. So, and like, so y’all what Jeff was saying about like hypnosis and stuff like that has to do with.

How overwhelming all the different practices and things like that can be from my study of [00:28:00]hypnosis and stuff like that. Basically when you have a whole lot of summit, when you have a whole lot of different shit going on your critical mind, which is only like 12% of the brain, like your subconscious mind is like 88% of it.

It’s like way more than what you might think. But when you overwhelm the critical mind, you know, you stop being so critical and then you just kind of start accepting a bunch of shit. So when you have the people speaking in tongues and twirling about in the music it’s playing and you’ve already got a whole platform set up and the people are up there on stage.

And so though, you’re, they’re already looking down at you and you’re already looking up at them. You don’t really have much of a, you know, a critical mind left by the, by the time all that is done. And like he’s saying, you’re in a state of what is known as hypnosis at that point, when your critical mind has been broken down enough for you to be on the receiving end of stuff, that.

Otherwise be more critical of, sometimes it can be used good. And the places where the love of God actually. And sometimes it’s not in [00:29:00] places where it isn’t and perhaps they might use that to manipulate even all kinds of things, give given money, you know, especially stuff like that. You know, you just, you do have to be careful for, you know, in the falling out, falling out in the quote unquote Ms.

Spirit shit. I’ve been in unfortunate situations before where they’re happy. Who like literally tried to put their hand on people and make them lay on the ground. You know, stuff like look, the holy ghost is real. There is a version of that. That’s actually authentic, but those free people, people are gifted like that.

And the Lord is using them. Them don’t even have to touch people. They’re going to fall out like that. And the Lord is going to slay somebody in the spirit as it is called it. Ain’t going to have to be forced. And then you’re not going to have people like I’ve seen. Making people talk in tongues and telling them to do it, you know, and then dancing in the spirit and stuff like that is real too.

De’Vannon: But then you’ve got sister, Sarah who [00:30:00] every damn Sunday at 11 o’clock that she go up and down the aisle, you know, like clockwork, we not talking about that. Bitch has 

Jeff: got a word again.

Of course 

De’Vannon: she has a fucking word. She always had a damn word.

So the Sarah needs to go sit her ass down somewhere because this is Sarah is addicted, is addicted to church and doesn’t realize it. 

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