Episode #12: World Religions, Christian Foolery & The Love of Christ with Branch Isole


This episode sparks the beginning of a relationship with an astounding man whom I look forward to many years of friendship with! He, like me, is a former drug dealer, he’s been to jail, he’s been homeless, and like myself he understands his mission is to do all he can to help others now that he’s been given a second chance. His name is Branch Isole and he is a poet, a storyteller and the author of 22 books! Branch was born in Osaka, Japan (my favorite country) and has the traveled the world extensively!  In this interview we are going to be focusing on his book titled GOD… i Believe. I wanted to focus on this book in particular because of how easy it is to read and understand. It is also written from a perspective that all world religions have value and it doesn’t place Christianity of a lofty pedestal. Branch graduated from Texas State Univ. B.S.Ed., did post graduate work at the University of Houston, M.Ed Adm., and holds an Oxford M.A. Theology degree from Trinity Bible College and Seminary. Branch shares how strength of choice can change consequences and  this man is known worldwide for his contemporary short story prose that reveals emotions and issues often experienced, but not always voiced. This is the longest interview I have ever conducted, and the subject matter is so important that the full version of this episode will be available to both paid and non-paid listeners. I really hope this helps someone…

INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to):

·        Personal Stories From Two Former Drug Dealers

·        A Detailed Look Into Branch’s Book: God…i Believe

·        The Purpose Of Life

·        What Happens When We Die?

·        A Better Understanding Of God And Jesus

·        Is Everything About Life Really Covered In The Bible?

·        The Difference Between Religion And Spirituality

·        Discovering Spiritual Truth

·        A Bit About The End Of The World (A Full Episode About This Is Coming)

·        Breakdown Of “Attitude – Belief – Perception”

·        Baby Steps To Starting A Spiritual Life 

·        The Importance Of Choosing A Spiritual Path (Whatever That May Be)

·        Failings Of Christianity 

·        Why Tithing Is NOT Mandatory

·        Exploration Of World Religions

             – Judaism

             – Islam

             – Buddhism

             – Hinduism

             – Animism

             – Atheism

             – Christianity 


God…i Believe: https://amzn.to/3gwgi1N

Website & Other Books: https://www.manaopublishing.com/

FaceBook: https://www.facebook.com/thevoyeuristicpoet

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/branch-isole-851433201/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzN66BkAUAemYX76Smnn0GA



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[00:00:00] You’re listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to. And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right. At the end of the day, my name is Davanon and I’ll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world. As we dig into topics that are too risky for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what’s really going on in your.

[00:00:24] There was nothing on the table and we’ve got a lot to talk about. So let’s dive right into this episode.

[00:00:34] De’Vannon: This episode sparks the beginning of a relationship. Well then astounding man, whom I look forward to many, many years of friendship with. He liked me as a former drug dealer. He’s been in jail, he’s been homeless and like myself, he understands his mission is to do all he can to help others. Now that he’s been given a second chance, his name is branch east LA, and he is [00:01:00] a poet, a storyteller, and the author of 22 books.

[00:01:03] Ranch was born in Osaka, Japan and my favorite country. And he has traveled the world extensively in this interview, we’re going to be focusing on his book title. God, I believe I wanted to focus on this book in particular because of how easy it is to read and understand. There’s also written from a perspective that all world religions have value and it doesn’t place Christianity on a lofty ass pedestal branch.

[00:01:28] I graduated from Texas state university with his bachelor’s in education. He did post-graduate work at the university of Houston. Got out of there with his master’s in education administration. And he also holds an Oxford master’s of theology from, uh, Trinity Bible college and seminary brand shares. How strength of choice can change consequences.

[00:01:50] And this man is known worldwide for his contemporary short story pros that reveals emotions and issues often experienced, but not always a [00:02:00] voice. Now this is the longest interview I’ve ever conducted. And the subject matter is so important that the full version of this episode will be available to both paid and non-paid listeners as well.

[00:02:12] I really hope this helps someone.

[00:02:16] Branch, thank you so much for joining me on the sex drugs and Jesus of podcasts that I’m so excited that today we get to talk a lot about Jesus, who was a part of our namesake here. How are you feeling today? 

[00:02:32] Branch: Hey buddy. I feel great. Thanks for having me on your show. I’ve been looking forward to this time together.

[00:02:39] De’Vannon: so have I and what delicious and sweet time it will be. And so, uh, so today we’re going to talk a lot about the beginnings and the root work that is done when somebody is considering a spiritual path, you’ve written many, many, many, many books, and one in [00:03:00] particular, God, I believe I thought really is like a cornerstone for people who are curious about religion and spirituality, undecided, or looking for a new point of view or perspective.

[00:03:14] And so I’d like you to tell us what was your motivation for writing God, I believe in a little bit about your own personal encounters with Jesus and conversion stuff. 

[00:03:26] Branch: Okay, thanks. Um, that’s a great place to start obviously. Um, like most people, my early years and my upbringing were pretty normal, pretty average.

[00:03:38] Um, I wasn’t influenced or exposed to a lot of religion. Uh, my family was Christian, but that was about as far as it went, you know, we were seeing E Christians, uh, Christmas and Easter. And beyond that, you know, it was, um, well, it’s out there, [00:04:00] but that’s about all we know. So, you know, my first 20, 30 years were pretty normal in terms of growing up in American society and education and the job and the career and all of those kinds of things.

[00:04:15] Um, about 35, I had some real south self doubts about who I was and what I was doing. And I was trying to figure your out if I’m not who I want to be, how do I become the person that I think I want to be? And that initially led me to a decision that I wanted to explore and try and find truth in my life and to come from the truth in my life.

[00:04:46] So that was the trigger point. That was the jumping off, um, Point for me and that search for the truth, um, I found was easy and difficult at the same [00:05:00] time. Um, the truth is all around us. It’s pretty self-evident. But if we are consumed by and buried by the layer of the world and society, the truth is often hidden from us, even though it’s in plain view, you know, our concepts and our decisions, um, get colored by ourself desires and the things that we want out of this life and, and from the world.

[00:05:32] So the, the conflict for me began almost immediately with, uh, what is the truth? How do I find the truth? How do I embrace the truth? Um, for the next 15 years, My struggle. And my path took me from the world into the spiritual path and from the truth, because I didn’t get the answer. I started [00:06:00] exploring different religions and mysticism, um, Buddhism, you know, the Eastern religions, uh, as much information as I could find in this search for proof, if proof is out there, then there must be a medium where it exists.

[00:06:19] And of course, this is what all religions are trying to portray and sell is that they have the truth. They have the way to the truth. So my exploration went from the truth as a concept to activities involving all of these different religions. And then finally, I had some experiences that sort of solidified for me where the truth lies, where it is to be found and what to do with it when you find so with that background, when I decided to write this book, I was [00:07:00] moved to write this book.

[00:07:01] It was primarily designed for fallen away Christians, because I am a Christian and others who had, who might be on the same path that I was on of being a seeker and a searcher. You know, for truth. So that was the motivation for the book. And as a result that the contextual presentation of the book is basically a layman’s study, a comparative study of the world’s different religions or faith belief systems.

[00:07:38] Um, and, and what I’ve done in the book or tried to do for the average reader is present them with the opportunity to know a little bit more the foundations or the basics of each of those religions and compare their answers to the same [00:08:00] set of questions so that the person who’s looking for a spiritual path and doesn’t know which one they might want to be going down.

[00:08:10] They’ve got a base of comparison between all of those systems of belief. And then once they know a little more information about each one, they might be able to make a more informed decision as to which one is their choice. Um, so that’s how the book came about and the foundation for, you know, my motivation to write that first book based on that struggle and that search.

[00:08:43] And then what that search actually looks like. You know, practice for today’s, um, purported religions and, and systems of belief 

[00:08:55] De’Vannon: now, uh, thank you for that explanation. Now, you said that you had, um, [00:09:00] a series of profound experiences that helped you to see what truth was while you were exploring. And, um, I want you to tell us what, you know, what, what some of those, uh, what, what, what was the profound moment that she said, okay, this is true.

[00:09:22] What was the experience that happened to lock it in for you? Because you had been experimenting with all of the experiencing all the different religions. You could get your hands on. What made you settle on Christianity? What happened? 

[00:09:37] Branch: Um, okay. Uh, I have been on this venture for five years. Um, you know, trying to discover truth, what it means, what it looks like, what it truly was.

[00:09:51] And many of your listeners may not believe this story, but since you asked, I’m going to tell it, um, one night I was getting [00:10:00] up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom and the bathroom was right across. From my bedrooms. And there was a small hallway between, and I was sort of half asleep. You know, I, I stumbled out of the one room headed for the next room and in the middle while I was in the hallway, a voice in my living room called out to me and it startled me so much that it blasted me awake and I turned around and I said, okay, um, there was no answer.

[00:10:36] And I was in the apartment alone. So there was nobody else in the apartment with me. And at that moment, um, I realized that the voice that had called out to me had to be one of two voices. It was either God, or it was the devil. And since I knew, if it was the devil, [00:11:00] he wouldn’t have responded. When I said what, then I realized that it was the spirit of the Lord calling me and all during this previous five years, I had been struggling with trying to read the Bible and trying to understand scripture as you know, my exploration into Christianity, along with my other explorations of religion.

[00:11:24] So at that point, that epiphany to me indicated that the Lord had. Something in mind for me. And he audibly called my name. And when I responded, his spirit came within me, his holy spirit came to live with my spirit. So that was the first epiphany that really took me off of, you know, the multiple paths and onto the Christian path.

[00:11:57] Um, yeah, I, 

[00:11:58] De’Vannon: at that time, [00:12:00] oh, go 

[00:12:00] Branch: ahead. Yeah. At that time in my life, my secular being, I was a drug dealer and that’s how I made my living. Um, so there was a real conflict between the way I was living my life and the desire of how I wanted to live my life. And that’s where my conflict was. Um, my second epiphany was shortly thereafter.

[00:12:31] I was arrested and, uh, arraigned and looking at 99 years in prison. Um, luckily or blessedly for me two weeks before I was set to go to trial. Um, my lawyer called and he said, uh, I was living in one state, had been arrested in a different state and my lawyer called and said, uh, you, you can come [00:13:00] back. Um, your case has been dropped and you can come back and get your vehicle and all the things that they took from you.

[00:13:08] And so that profound experience, having spent some time in jail, you know, after the arrest and spent the next three months, um, sort of for, in foreboding mode of what I was about to face and what was about to happen to me, that was like a weight lifted off of me. Um, you know, like you can’t imagine, but circumstances were such that the case was dropped and that was the end of my, um, drug life and my jail time life.

[00:13:47] Um, know, so, and the third experience I’ll tell you real quickly was the main change. And, and I had, um, decided to change my [00:14:00] name and quick experience. Gave me the name that I took, which is branchy Solei. But when I accepted that name change, it solidified me as a servant of God. One, when God gives you a commission or a task, or tells you to change your name and gives you a new name and you accept those things, then you are committed to service to him.

[00:14:29] So those three experiences, um, over a 10 year period, after the five years of exploration period, uh, put me on the path and have, um, led me down this path where I attempt to share with others who are seeking and searching and wondering about, there’s gotta be more in my life. Where is it? What is it? And how do I find it?

[00:14:56] So that’s my, you know, my [00:15:00] job today is to share with people, um, how to find the Lord in their life. 

[00:15:08] De’Vannon: Right? Okay. So I’m going to go back and touch on kind of like all three of those, because they were also fascinating. So, and I love these, this, this sort of transparency here, branch, because see the Lord comes in here.

[00:15:25] Talks to people and deals with people in all sorts of ways. And maybe sometimes they may be thinking they’re the only ones something super strange is happening. And so I like it when we can talk about this so that listeners can go, okay, well maybe I heard a voice too, or maybe I had, maybe God was speaking to me in this dream or in this trance or whatever.

[00:15:45] So, um, and you know, for those who it is meant to believe they will, for those who it is not, they will not. And so, but the, you know, a personal here transparency like this, and if the Lord wants to, he will strike a chord in them. Whereas my grandmother would call [00:16:00] it, uh, a spiritual note or like when, um, people were singing and we’re singing in church, you would call it a spiritual net when someone would get to get happy if they would say.

[00:16:12] And, um, because what happened when I was young, I was, and I was sleeping in the bed with my grandmother when I was little, I heard an audible voice like that in slumber, in the middle of the night too, but it was not the Lord calling me. It was the devil, um, trying to, it was a, it wasn’t an enticing.

[00:16:38] Slithery like voice. And it was like, it was saying like, um, the van and the van, and I believe he said it twice. And it was a such that I touched my grandmother and I was like, you know, you know that you call me, you tell me what was that voice that I heard. And so both the devil and God have the [00:17:00] power to speak verbally.

[00:17:01] People don’t talk about that a lot. So I don’t think your story is strange at all. Um, and then your, your second experience with drug dealing. I was a drug dealer too, for some time in Houston, Texas. And then, you know, I got arrested as well. Um, yeah. Going to jail and, and facing long sentences and stuff like that can be a life-changing could put you on a path.

[00:17:24] And then when you get delivered from it, you get this strong sense of, okay, you know, I have this second chance and now what am I going to do with it? And it’s not meant to, for, for people like us and for people who have been delivered from, you know, from, from strong things like that, that try to captivate your whole life, uh, to dissent quietly.

[00:17:51] You know, it is for us to open our mouths and talking about what happened so that others may be delivered, whoever it is. That they’d gone as [00:18:00] intended. And then the name changes that you speak of, um, reminds me from the old Testament of Jacob, you know, you had a Jacob experience there and, um, and what happened, you know, Jacob wrestled with an angel all night and then the Lord turned, gave him his name from, uh, changed his name from Jacob to Israel.

[00:18:24] Or you could say you had a, uh, a road to Damascus experience where we’re Saul’s name went from Saul to Paul. So sometimes certain things happen to us in life and we come out of it. Some people shave all their hair off, I’m already bald. So I can, I can identify with that. Some people do all kinds of things to signify, and a lot of times is after trauma has happened, but a whole name change totally counts too.

[00:18:50] Um, I think that some children, when they’re adopted should be given completely different names because they’re coming from such disadvantaged [00:19:00] backgrounds and everything. And that way it really drives the point home with that child, that whatever, whatever it was that was going on with you before we’re coming to help you and save you that’s over you now have a new name, a new life, a new path, a new purpose, a new destiny, a new everything, or is it says in the book of revelation, he who sets up on the throne, said behold, I make all things new.

[00:19:24] And sometimes, sometimes why, who we need a whole. The whole redo. And so, so I think it’s wonderful. I bet you, somebody out there is going to find the Lord and change their name just because you did. And I love it. 

[00:19:40] Branch: Well, you know, a couple of those things you said are just so important because the Lord has a plan for everybody and that plan involves them coming back to him.

[00:19:55] And I think that there’s one of [00:20:00] the greatest things about all these podcast options and availabilities today is we’re able to reach out and touch or expose a lot of people who have not been exposed to their options in their life. And I believe there’s a, you know, a big revival coming in the future.

[00:20:19] And so. All of these people around the world who are involved in ministry. And that’s what you’re doing and I’m doing is, is a little ministry, but we’re trying to share the gospel, share the word, share the importance of a spiritual relationship. And this is the way the word is. The Lord is work through to lots of people in order to reach lots of other people.

[00:20:46] And so what you’ve said is exactly right. You know, he speaks to us, he comes to us in different ways. He’ll use whatever method or medium he can to awaken us to who [00:21:00] he is and what he’s got planned for us. And, you know, people shouldn’t be surprised if they see in the world of the Lord working in their world or in their life, he’s doing it through lots of different people, um, in lots of different mediums.

[00:21:17] So as a listener, don’t be surprised if the Lord is reaching out to you because he is and, um, be cognizant of it and welcome it. It’ll change your life. 

[00:21:31] De’Vannon: Amen and amen on a, on a Tuesday morning. And, uh, and, and it, everybody, I had said that we were going to touch on a little bit of, um, in times, uh, things which has to do with the end of the world.

[00:21:49] And stuff like that, but actually I think we’re probably going to do like a whole other different episode that talks about eschatology and things of [00:22:00] that in, um, but this, but I just don’t, I’m going to do that because a lot of people are thinking that, you know, do this might come back any second of today and things like that.

[00:22:14] And I think a lot of people don’t understand the political implications that are in the book of revelation and things like that. And so it bears the whole episode. So just for now, you don’t have to worry about whether or not the world is going to crumble, you know, like any second, a lot more has to happen and we’re going to do it in, in some end up, at least one ended up episode on that.

[00:22:37] So you can stop worrying about it because God, when I was growing up, you know, all the old people were like, you know, the, in this coming, it’s going to be any day now, you know, at any moment, you know, so, you know, the kid, you know, looking out the window, you know, because Jesus up there anxiety that, you know, I just really didn’t need.

[00:22:57] So it was there anything branch you would like to say [00:23:00] to kind of broach the topic of the end times and then after that we’ll dive right into the book. 

[00:23:05] Branch: Okay. The end times. That that’s without a doubt. And we see the precursors of what’s described as end-time events happening in our lives today. And, and you’re right.

[00:23:20] Um, we need more time to get into it. You’re also correct. People don’t have to worry that, you know, the sun’s not coming up tomorrow and it’s over, there has to be some things that are going to take place, um, before those times happen. But you know, it’s interesting. And I’ll just say this real quickly, when you start to look at end time prophecy and what the word of God tells us about the end times, and then you recognize some of the things that are happening.

[00:23:52] What it’s trying to do is give us a warning and make us aware that these things will [00:24:00] take place. And now is the time to get right with the Lord. If the Lord’s not in your life, there’s no better time to start than today. Because when you start down this path, these events that are unfolding right before our eyes will become self-evident as to their relationship to the end times and the last day events.

[00:24:26] And as they open up and make themselves known, we can be prepared for them. Um, and we can also be prepared for whatever the consequences may be, because we will have that relationship with the Lord, but don’t worry. It’s not happening anytime soon, but it is likely going to happen. You know, there’s going to be a lot of people alive today who see it take place.

[00:24:55] De’Vannon: Okay. Um, oh, can you explain to us [00:25:00] the difference in between spirituality and religion please? 

[00:25:05] Branch: Wow. Um, in a nutshell, uh, religion is ma a man-made system to interpret the word of God. And spirituality is the word of God inaction. Um, know one comes from God and one manipulates. What comes from God. 

[00:25:35] De’Vannon: Uh, when you say that, I think about, uh, what my next book is going to be kind of centered around, which is the fuckery that has become the Christianity in America, in the, in like the 50 million different versions of it that you have and stuff like that.

[00:25:54] And so, um, that’s another thing that people can stay tuned for, but for right [00:26:00] now, what, what branch is saying is that. Spirituality is like your one-on-one time. Like you, you and the Lord and religion is this sounds like it’s getting into rituals and practices and things like that that may not necessarily have anything to do with your walk of faith.

[00:26:16] More like maybe platitudes or superficial things. And so 

[00:26:22] Branch: well, for, for, for the, for the individual, who’s wondering, you know, and, and asks themselves. The simple question to ask is, is this religion asking me to use it, to get to God? Or is it allowing me to come and get to God on my own? You see, that’s all religions.

[00:26:49] If you look at them, their intent is to bring people to God, however, their re their rights and worship [00:27:00] services and those kinds of things that they go through require that you go through the priest or the pastor or the mom to get to God. So if, you know, if, if you get fed in a religious situation, That’s what’s important that you have, you know, you get that word that you need to help make you a better person in your life.

[00:27:26] However, if the religion requires that you come through the priest or the pastor or the mom in order to get to God, unless that’s where you want to be, you probably are more interested in the spiritual path than the religious path. The spiritual path, as said, is open to you to go to God at any moment in time every day.

[00:27:50] I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s what a personal relationship, personal spiritual relationship between the individual and God is, [00:28:00] um, you don’t need to go through some mediator to get to God other than for the Christian. Of course we go through Christ. 

[00:28:10] De’Vannon: You’re right. Absolutely. No human is needed because we already have Jesus.

[00:28:15] Branch: Exactly. 

[00:28:17] De’Vannon: Exactly. Okay, cool. So now your book is broken down into three parts, attitude, belief, perception. I love me something that’s very organized and I can’t remember. Yeah. I spent six years in the air force and I don’t remember only what I was MIT. And I don’t remember when I was super, I was pretty organized before then, but certainly after that and, um, that I’ve never lost that.

[00:28:40] So I love it. You know, attitude, belief, perception, and there’s different chapters under each section. And so then if a person feels drawn to one section, we feel like they need help with this or that. You know, it was very clearly defined where you can go and seek that, which you need. [00:29:00] So we’re going to give an explanation of what each section is about starting with attitude, and you defined it as a mental position or feeling with regard to a fact, or a state, a manner of showings one’s feelings or thoughts or one’s disposition or opinion.

[00:29:19] So tell us though, at further about the attitude section of the book, 

[00:29:27] Branch: but like you said, and I’m glad you pointed out, you can start, you don’t have to start at page one with this book. You, you can know pick where you want to begin. Um, whatever your interests may be peaked from the table of contents, attitude.

[00:29:42] You know, we have an attitude towards virtually everything in our life from birth on, and it’s interesting that a lot of self-help, um, books and gurus, um, Base [00:30:00] everything that they’re selling or sharing or teaching on a change of attitude. And that’s how powerful, uh, you know, one’s attitude can be, is you can go into a situation and, and your, your mention of the military is such a great example because in the military, you’re in a very regimented environment and things are pretty well-defined.

[00:30:28] And if you’ve ever been in the service, which Nevada, Anna and I both have, um, there comes times when, you know, you’re required or requested to do things that you might have a problem with or an issue. But you know, you go ahead and you do them. What you find is a simple change in attitude can make any task, no matter how regimented the situation be, can make [00:31:00] any tasks, less threatening and less of a challenge to do.

[00:31:05] So attitude is so important in our daily lives. Um, changing your attitude can make all the difference in just a moment’s notice of change of attitude, you know, your whole. Perspective on what you’re being asked or required to do. It can be totally different. That’s the power of one’s attitude. Um, so this is particularly important when we’re talking about something as life-changing as spirituality or a religious commitment can be, um, that in and of itself takes a totality of one’s investment of self to go from a non-religious or non-spiritual position in your [00:32:00] life.

[00:32:00] And to then invite that new application and concept of spirituality or religion in your life. That essence of attitude is absolutely necessary from you to go from a secular only, or non-spiritual non-religious life into a new commitment as a spiritual or religious neophyte. So attitude becomes important, um, particularly in this realm of spirituality and religion, because it’s going to change your life, whether you want it to or not.

[00:32:44] Once you make that commitment and step on that path of spirituality. Or religion, your life will change and your attitude needs to be one that can accept that change and then [00:33:00] make the most out of that change. Uh, you can’t do it without a change in attitude. And that’s how important attitude is. Um, you know, even beyond our daily activities and daily life kinds of situations, when we’re talking about making life changing changes than attitude is certainly one of the cornerstones of making that new exposure successful.

[00:33:31] De’Vannon: Okay, well put sir, and then the next section is belief. Um, trust or confidence is how this is, uh, defined in the book or, or the conviction that certain things are true. Break that down further for us please. 

[00:33:49] Branch: Well, you know, we all believe certain things and from our earliest memories and indoctrinations as [00:34:00] children and the environments and families that we grow up in, we learn and accept certain belief, structures, and patterns.

[00:34:12] Um, you’ll see this evident in behaviors today. That are outside of what we once considered, you know, the norm and the way people respond to other people today, um, in very negative ways and very negative actions, all of our actions and all of our responses are grounded in our belief system, whatever that might be, uh, here, again, for people who are not on a spiritual or religious path, it’s sort of one of those, um, attitude is all, it’s all about me or what’s in it for [00:35:00] me.

[00:35:00] And therefore the grounding of my belief system is I can do whatever I want and I will do whatever I want, no matter who it harms or what turmoil it may cause. So that’s the strength of belief and belief is, uh, essentially grounded in who we are, who we become, um, is the tap root. That’s tied to who we believe we are by who we were, you know, who we grew up as being.

[00:35:38] So that’s the importance of belief. Now belief in myself and belief in my world can change. But for a lot of people, that’s, that’s a difficult jump to make. And again, we see that evidenced in our world today just by the, um, [00:36:00] and the crazy things that are taking place and the way people choose to behave towards, you know, other people, um, all of that’s grounded in, in our belief system of who we are and what we believe to be true or trust to be true.

[00:36:21] De’Vannon: Okay. Well put, well, I believe all of that, which you just said, then the third section perception, and that you say that this is an awareness of one, the environment through physical sensation or the mental grasp of objects through the senses insight or intuition knowledge and just it by pristine thing.

[00:36:47] Tell us, tell us what we should be perceiving here. 

[00:36:52] Branch: Well, the question is what are you perceiving? You know, and I’ll give you a great, well, I’ll give you the prime example for where we are [00:37:00] on July the 27th, 2021 as the, uh, insurrection congressional hearing starts. You have an action that took place that was seen across the planet, uh, in real time.

[00:37:18] And yet today we have a variety of different perceptions of what actually happened. So our perception of ourselves or the people in our lives, or the events in our lives are colored by the previous two things. We talked about our belief system and our attitudes towards that belief system perception can be, it’s like a magician.

[00:37:52] You know, you perceive one thing that’s happening and the reality is it’s not happening. And [00:38:00] this is the strength of perception. All three of these attitude, belief and perception is sort of like a three-legged stool that holds the seat of one’s reality. And our attitude can be changed. Our beliefs can be changed and our perceptions can be changed, but we have to be the ones to change those.

[00:38:25] Um, otherwise, you know, the difficulty to break those bonds. Are so great. And the struggle is so great because you have to look at yourself and that gets into a whole nother realm. Am I willing to look at myself? And if I do, am I willing to accept what I see? Only when I get to that point, can I spread the path where I might be willing to [00:39:00] change my attitudes, beliefs, and perceptions.

[00:39:03] So, you know, we can perceive things, but our perception is colored by our beliefs and our attitudes. It’s all 

[00:39:12] De’Vannon: connected. So, um, all connected. Tell us branch, you, you write in your book that one of the greatest challenges that we face when we’re starting a new relationship with the Lord is grappling with our feelings of unworthiness.

[00:39:31] I feel like since you stated such a bold statement, it was worth bringing up in the interview to talk to us about this unworthiness of where it comes from and why it’s such a hindrance

[00:39:46] Branch: as people, we all crave, two things love and approval. And again, these things start in childhood [00:40:00] and. Transmuted and transmitted as we grow and they morph and change. According to our attitudes, beliefs, perceptions, our environment, um, you know, our family situation, all of those factors that are part of life as we grow, um, all make who we are and who we are and who we wish to become, um, are all interconnected.

[00:40:40] So

[00:40:44] ask asked me, I lost my train of thought here. I was going down the wrong path. 

[00:40:50] De’Vannon: No problem. We were talking about the feelings of unwell. 

[00:40:53] Branch: Oh yeah. Unworthiness. Well, this, this, this craving for love and approval right. Starts with our parents and [00:41:00] works out as our, the ripple of our life expands. And what we find as we go through the lessons in life is we have lots of opportunities to doubt ourselves and to question ourselves and to beat ourselves up about some of the choices that we make, all of these sort of negative.

[00:41:28] Vibes and negative consequential experiences feed into this idea of, well, I’m not worthy of love or approval. And if I’m not worthy of love or approval than my life basically is worthless or has no worth to anyone else. And if it has no worth to anyone else that it has no worth to me, this is one of the importance of developing a spiritual [00:42:00] relationship is that spirituality gives you a connection with something greater than yourself, outside of yourself that can show to you and prove to you that you are worthy.

[00:42:18] No matter your situation, no matter, you know, the decisions and choices that you you start to make, or that you continue to make spiritual growth is all based on you understanding that you are worthy, that someone does love you. That being the Lord and that his love is unconditional. Um, unconditional love is, is the greatest thing in the universe.

[00:42:49] And it’s the most difficult thing, or one of the most difficult things for us to understand. We can’t understand unconditional love because we live in a world [00:43:00] that, you know, denies that, that exists. This is why, again, a spiritual path and a spiritual relationship is so important. It shows you that God’s unconditional love for you no matter who you are, no matter where you are in your life.

[00:43:18] No matter of the mistakes that you’ve made, you have a worthiness to him simply because you are, he, as the creator created you, your spiritual energy comes from him. It is therefore part of his spiritual energy. It’s part of his spiritual existence. And for that reason alone, you are worthy to be loved.

[00:43:48] And regardless of how much approval you crave for yourself, that approval is unnecessary. This is why, you know, unworthiness in itself [00:44:00] can be such a downer. I mean, it can just drag us and keep us into the depths of our own despair. Finding out and realizing that we are worthy because we’re worthy of God’s love.

[00:44:14] That’s all we need to establish our worthiness. Now it’s our position and our responsibility to allow our worth, to grow and to show it to the world. Um, the interesting thing about life, as you know, we’re all in the same situation, we’re all struggling. We all have problems. We all have relationship issues.

[00:44:41] We have to, you know, divorce ourselves or allow something greater than all of those struggles to be part of our life. When you allow a spiritual relationship to be ignited in your life, your sense of worth, all [00:45:00] of a sudden becomes real. And you realize I can face these struggles because I am worthy. I don’t have to keep beating myself up about decisions or choices that I made that make me believe that I’m unworthy.

[00:45:17] So you know, this unworthy and worthy concept, it’s like a two-edged sword, whichever sword side we’ve got up and choose to use is the one that will continue to build its strength within

[00:45:35] De’Vannon: the important. The spirituality reminds me of the, um, of the fact that it’s important for people to make a spiritual choice on what they’re going to believe or into, and to really work on themselves spiritually. Because if not, then, you know, we’re out of balance. And I don’t think, I think most people agree that we all have some [00:46:00] sort of spirit, soul, something unseen living on the inside of us at the center of our being, no matter what path of faith that a person believes in.

[00:46:12] Um, and so when we don’t actively get after spiritual enlightenment and understanding, then invasively leaving a part of ourselves on nourish, unfulfilled and unsatisfied, and then that throws us out of balance. And then what happens then is we go out in the world and we have problems and things like that.

[00:46:31] And when we can’t figure out why we keep running into those problems, or where is the problem coming from? Well, you know, it’s like, you know, starving yourself. If you don’t eat, you’re gonna fall out and leaving your poor little spirit there with no direction and no food, no nourishment or nothing like that.

[00:46:51] It going to throw you completely out of balance. It’s like trying to drive a car on three tires. It’s not going to work. And so, and what I love about [00:47:00] this book is it’s not necessarily saying one. Religion is better than another. Talk about this, that later on in the interview, but it breaks down the different options that are out there.

[00:47:12] You got to find something though and do something with that spirit. It’s all sitting inside of you in a, rather than because a lot of people just take a casual approach to spirituality. Like they’ll find it eventually, or they, maybe they think they’ll find it in their travels across the globe, but it’s not like you really have to go to the other side of the world anymore to even experiment experience different things.

[00:47:35] You can go online, you know, do zoom calls and things like that. And talk to, you know, different people who are, who are, who are from different religions and stuff like that. You can go to church online these days, if you want to, and you can look anything up online. So what I’m saying is the knowledge is at your fingertips, that this book gives you a good overview of it.

[00:47:56] But if we really wanted to do something with our spirits and our souls, just like [00:48:00] when we want to go out and do anything else, make money, have sex, you know, follow our advices. And I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with those things, but I am saying that we go after what we really fucking want to go after and dealing with our spirits, shouldn’t be something that’s left to chance or, you know, I appreciate the Wednesday whenever the day may come, you know, 

[00:48:23] Branch: well, life is about choices and consequences and, uh, you know, spiritual cognition is one of those choices.

[00:48:34] One of the interesting things about God is whether you’re a spiritual person or not, or religious person or not. And it doesn’t matter what religion we’re talking about. One of the most interesting things is God demands, nothing of us, except one thing before we die, he will demand whether or not we will [00:49:00] believe that Jesus Christ was his son and came here for a reason, that reason being salvation.

[00:49:10] Um, no, I don’t want to go down the rabbit hole with different religions and, and Jesus or no Jesus or any of those things. People choose the religion for the reasons they need that religion, whatever that religion may be. But for the Christian, we are obligated to decide whether or not, or for the professed Christian, you know, somebody who says, well, I’m, I’m a Christian, regardless of whatever that may look like in action or thought word, indeed, if you claim to be a Christian, that at some point you will have to decide whether or not you truly believe what Christianity is.

[00:49:57] And Christianity is Christ like [00:50:00] behavior. So are you going to emulate Christ, believe who he was, who he steady was and who the scriptures say he was or not? And this is the struggle for Christians today. Many Christians I’m a Christian, but my actions and my thoughts, words and deeds are not Christ-like.

[00:50:26] So how much of a Christian am I? 

[00:50:29] De’Vannon: And in terms of the actions, uh, Jesus summed it up like this. He said all the laws in the books and the profits getting, hang on to whether or not you love your neighbor as yourself. And if you love the Lord, your God with all your heart and with all your mind, with all your soul and all your spirit.

[00:50:46] So that means you don’t be an asshole. It means you don’t be a Karen, essentially speaking.[00:51:00] 

[00:51:03] Branch: No. And people asked me, you know, can you, can you explain to me the old Testament and the new Testament, and there’s greater minds than mine that have grappled with that question. But when the seeker and searcher asks me the easiest way to describe to them, Is to send them to Exodus 20 and to Matthew 2237, the entire, the entire Bible is about one person and that’s Jesus Christ, both the old Testament and the new Testament both have the same focus and intent, and that’s on the life and teachings of Christ as the Messiah.

[00:51:55] But the old Testament is summed up in the 10 [00:52:00] commandments found in Exodus 20. And the new Testament is found in Matthew 2237, which you just quoted love God first and most treat your neighbor as yourself on these two, hang all the laws and the prophets, meaning every law that God had given, whether it’s the 10 commandments or the 632 that he gave to Judaism and all the words of all the prophets old and new Testament, all boil down to those two things, love God most first and most and treat your neighbor as yourself.

[00:52:40] You see, that’s one of the problems we have today in the world, but particularly in the Christian world, we call ourselves Christian. But we don’t go out with an attitude, a belief and a perception that my desire is to treat others the way [00:53:00] I want to be treated. And for me, that’s the biggest failing of Christianity, regardless of the denomination.

[00:53:08] Someone may be in the totality of Christianity is summed up in that statement by Christ. And yet we’ve got lots of Christians who refuse to no trust and abide in the behavior. There’s that would emulate that statement. 

[00:53:31] De’Vannon: Correct. And, um, I want to add too. So like, so like y’all, wouldn’t branches saying the old Testament is some of the, in the, uh, the 10 commandments, um, and those 10 commandments reflect the heart of Jesus.

[00:53:45] I agree with that now for, for people who are aware and a lot of people are of all the other rules in the old Testament. Like you can’t eat, you know, this beast, if their foot is clove in, or if they chew the cud, you know? Okay. [00:54:00] So that has a lot to do with the culture of the Israelites and different things that were going on with them at that time.

[00:54:07] And, um, and so I’m just going to say this to set people free from a lot of confusion that prevails in the book of acts, which is in the new Testament, there was this whole kerfluffle. Between the Jews and the people who are of the bloodline of Abraham and everybody who wasn’t the Gentiles. So even though Jesus came and did his ministry, it’s not like those of us who were not of the bloodline of Abraham were just as welcomed in, on a nice rosy carpet, you know, do people had to really, really fight for acceptance and things like that.

[00:54:41] And so it got to a point where were, where were the apostles of the day? And everything had a meeting and said, okay, the Gentiles are here to stay. So what is it that they have to do? What don’t they have to do? And when they came out of that meeting, they released everybody who was not of the bloodline of Abraham from all [00:55:00] Israelite, customs and traditions, with the exception of like eating strangled meat and things sacrificed to idols or something like that, they all had to do with life consumption of some sort of thing.

[00:55:11] But in terms of anything traditional like that from the old Testament that doesn’t have anything to do with, with, with those of us who are not of the bloodline of Abraham. And then even from my understanding, if they don’t want to, they don’t have to, because that was a whole, you know, it was the one thing Jesus accomplished.

[00:55:28] You gave everybody a new path, but if people insisted upon holding to the old traditions, they could, but nobody really had to any more, but especially those of us who were in grafted in through Jesus Christ in, you know, And I, and, um, I’m going to put my foot in the rabbit hole a little bit and say that I believe that that released all of us from like the commandments, the thigh, and a couple of other things, because those things started, you know, back in the old Testament for the nation of [00:56:00] Israel and we are not of the nation of Israel.

[00:56:02] And so, and so don’t worry about you eat whatever you want to baby. The Lord was still loving you.

[00:56:12] And, um, 

[00:56:13] Branch: you know, the God gave the Israelites, you know, some fundamental laws and decrees, and so much of the time the Israelites, you know, rather than trusting in the Lord, they wanted to be like other people, you know, they wanted a king, so they got solved. They wanted laws. So they get, they got lost, they got 639 laws in Leviticus and Deuteronomy and, and ways that they would be required to live Christ did away with all of those things for believers and followers in Christ, the Jews, the Hasidic Jews, particularly the Orthodox Jews, you know, still live with those kinds of [00:57:00] traditional mores and that’s their lifestyle and their life choice.

[00:57:05] Uh, the Zionist Jews. You know, are like the, um, purpose driven Christians, they kind of pick and choose what it is they want to, um, honor and obey Christ’s coming. And the new Testament writings like the man, Adam says releases us from those old traditions. Um, his, his sacrifice for us pays for all of our sins as believers.

[00:57:40] Um, so it, you know, if you don’t want to eat bacon, don’t eat bacon, but if you want to enjoy bacon, um, you know, it’s not a sin to eat bacon, uh, at, at this point, you know, in you’re right about the, uh, doing a way with this [00:58:00] division. It’s interesting that there were so much conflict between the traditional keeping Jews who be, who were becoming Christians and the rest of the Christians who were, you know, trying to understand what this new religion was all about.

[00:58:18] Um, the circumcision, right? What was kind of the, the focal point that brought it all to a head, but Jesus, his presence for his followers, it doesn’t negate the past, but it puts away the sin. Of disobedience of the past. It’s a new life. You’re a new creation in Christ. And so as a new creation in Christ, as a believer in Christ, then our duty and our obligation, um, by accepting him as our Lord is to, you know, emulate him in thought word, [00:59:00] indeed.

[00:59:00] And it’s not about being circumcised or not, or not about eating bacon or not. It’s about loving God first and most and treating your neighbor as yourself, whether or not the bacon are circumcised. 

[00:59:12] De’Vannon: Well, I love me, um, bacon and my bloody Mary’s kidney. That’s about the only thing I really have vacant is when it’s, when I’m throwing me back.

[00:59:21] One of those and, um, 

[00:59:26] Branch: well, that’s interesting, you know, what’s, what’s, what’s advice. Vice is like, what’s a vice 

[00:59:34] De’Vannon: vice vinyl. Oh, I thought you were asking. Yeah. W 

[00:59:38] Branch: w no, what do we consider a vice, right? For me of ice may be eating bacon, um, for someone else it’s not. So who determines, you know, what’s a vice, what’s a sin who determines what’s a sin and what’s not a sin.

[00:59:55] Um, you know, [01:00:00] it’s, that’s what forgiveness is all about. And that’s what. Repentance is all about, um, I can choose to not eat bacon, um, that doesn’t make it a sin or a vice I can choose to repay. It’s just, you know, there’s a difference between spiritual grounding and understanding of sin and sin nature.

[01:00:23] And then there’s a difference between vice and San Anna legalistics situation or legalistic terms. And you see, that’s what you find in most traditional applied religions, Judaism, Islam, um, some of the Eastern religions, you know, it’s a vice, because we say it’s a vice or it’s a sin because we say it’s a sin.

[01:00:48] Or, you know, our holy book says it’s a sin, but for the follower of Christ, whether it’s a sin or [01:01:00] not in legal terms or traditional religious terms, the love of Christ and the forgiveness of Christ covers those sins. So this, this question of is that a sin or not a sin, is this behavior a vice and not a vice?

[01:01:15] Is this behavior. Sin becomes irrelevant except to the self-righteous and hypocritical one who wants to hold that as the standard for reward or punishment. And this is the importance of spirituality. That spiritual connection, you know, covers you from this past behavior that others might have said was a sin.

[01:01:48] They can still call it a sin and still be, you know, lambasting you as sinful. But the hypocrisy is in their own statement, [01:02:00] a sin as a sin, um, in God’s eyes, you know, murder is no more or no less a sin than covetousness. So that’s where we, you know, religion encourages us to get caught up in this hypocrisy of I’m right.

[01:02:19] And you’re wrong, or this behavior is okay, and this behavior is not okay. And whose to make that judgment and that determination while the hypocrites love to be the judge and the jury. Right. Um, whether it’s the ISIS faction of Islam or the evangelical extremists in Christianity, they love to throw stones, um, you know, at others who are sinning, but their sin is okay.

[01:02:54] You know, I, I, there’s an old joke. Um, and I’ll, I’ll tell you just because you’re from [01:03:00] the south and I live in the south and it’s, um, why do Baptist never make love standing up? They’re afraid somebody is going to see them and think they’re dancing. I see. So, you know, who’s going to determine sin activity and righteous activity.

[01:03:23] Well, ultimately God is going to determine that he’s the judge, um, and his justice is right. So, you know, if somebody says your activity is sinful and you shouldn’t be doing that, first of all, let them look at their own sin, you know, get that speck of dust in that plank in correct proportions. And then you, you worry about, you know, how you’re going to a tone when you stand in front of God, it’s between you and him.

[01:03:54] And here’s the whole point of Christianity. If you’re a believer and a follower in Christ, [01:04:00] he’s already covered that sin for you. You will not have to stand in front of God. You will be judged. But Christ’s sacrifice for you as a Christ, believing Christian, and one who emulates Christ will be covered. So don’t worry about, you know, who calls you a sinner?

[01:04:22] Um, let them worry about themselves. You do, you know, love God first and most and treat others the way you want to be treated. And you’re on the path to becoming less sinful in the eyes of God. Um, right. 

[01:04:37] De’Vannon: And, um, I like to say, I agree with you said, and the simplest way I’ve learned to look at it, is that okay?

[01:04:49] So in the Bible it says that like the Lord changes us and deals with us, like a line upon line precept upon precept here, a little there, a little bind by, [01:05:00] so we don’t have power to change like our behavior necessarily ourselves and, uh, 

[01:05:11] Branch: or we would, 

[01:05:12] De’Vannon: or we would, but you know, the Lord, you know, already told us that, you know, we, by taking thought cannot add one cubic of height to ourselves.

[01:05:19] And so he was, he was telling us, you know, it was him that’s going to change is what he’s not going to do it until he’s ready to do it. And so in its simplest form, as long as you are true in your pursuit of the Lord, He, you just left that, you know, as long as you’re really getting after him and sincerity, that anything that’s that he doesn’t want you to be doing, eventually you’re going to naturally fall out of agreement with it anyway.

[01:05:43] Amen. 

[01:05:44] Branch: Amen. 

[01:05:44] De’Vannon: That’s it. And then you 

[01:05:45] Branch: don’t need it. Yeah. Become a new creation in Christ. When you give your heart and soul to Christ and choose to start following him, you will change your behavior, your [01:06:00] thoughts, your desires change, because the holy spirit now lives within you and with him in you. This is the great thing about Christianity for the believer.

[01:06:10] Every time you have to make a choice, whatever it may be something, you know, monumental in your life or something simple in your life. Every time you’ve got to choose, you have a choice to make, you can say, am I going to do this my way or the world’s way? Or am I going to do it Christ way? Am I going to do what God would have me do?

[01:06:32] And when Christ spirit lives within you, his holy spirit is the same holy spirit of God. The father, when that spirit is alive within your spirit, and you ask in this situation, what am I going to do? Your next question is what would Jesus do? In this same situation, I find myself, what would he respond? How would he respond?

[01:06:59] What would he [01:07:00] do? And when you ask that question, his spirit living within you will answer and we’ll show you the consequences of not being obedient of not choosing God’s way. Look, God, nobody in your life has your best interest at heart, more than God himself. That’s why he sends his spirit to be with us, to help us, um, get through the day.

[01:07:29] And so when you have a choice to make, and you say, what am I going to do? Um, what do I want to do with the carnal world branch thing would want to do, do I want to do what’s in it for me? Or am I going to do what Jesus would have done? I have a choice to make, but if I choose to do it my way, then I will, you know, reap the benefit or suffer the consequences of whatever that choice has at the end of the [01:08:00] road.

[01:08:00] If I choose to do it God’s way or ask, what would Jesus do? His spirit living within me is going to show me right then the consequences of doing it my way of doing it, the world’s way. He’s going to show me the downside to that decision. This is the amazing thing of God’s love. He will show you your future before it even takes place.

[01:08:28] Before you put into action, the choice of the decision you’ve made, he will show you the downside, the negative outcome of choosing the world’s way. When the closer we get to God, that becomes more and more self-evident. So our behavior on our actions automatically begins to change. We change ourself with the strength of God’s spirit living within us.

[01:08:58] That’s what spirituality [01:09:00] is all about. That’s what a relationship with Jesus Christ or a relationship with God through Jesus Christ, because we now possess his same spirit. He will show us the way and that keeps us out of trouble. It keeps us away from the holes of adversity. It allows us to not go down that path.

[01:09:24] The greatest thing about the love of God is the further you go down the path, responding the way he wants you to respond, because he has your best interest at heart. The more you respond that way, the more he begins to bless your life. And those blessings could be run the gamut. It could be material blessings, it could be, you know, possession, blessings.

[01:09:50] It could be psychological blessings relationship wise. It doesn’t matter. The love of God and obedience to his [01:10:00] spiritual leadership fills your heart. That’s the true blessing. Your heart is filled. Like nothing else can fill it. There’s nothing of the world that can fill your heart. Like the spirit of God, if it did, you wouldn’t want that new car or that new house, or, you know, another appliance that desire for material goods is the core.

[01:10:25] Of the world and that’s where its tests and temptations know live in our house. This is why you never can grasp happiness through the ways of the world because the world, no matter what, you have always encourage you to want more and to desire more when you have the love of God in your heart, because the spirit of God lives within you, your heart and your soul are full.

[01:10:51] There’s nothing that the world can offer you that can fill you more than that spirit. And when you have his spirit within [01:11:00] you and you are fulfilled, you see the truth in the world, you see the folly in the world and you realize that the fall is nothing more, you know, than illusion. The love of God will, will reward you more than you could possibly imagine.

[01:11:22] And this is why going down the spiritual path led by the light of Christ brings you closer to God. And the closer you get to God, the more like Christ you are. So your natural action and your natural inclination is against the sin of the world. 

[01:11:41] De’Vannon: And, um, and so. And so branch is not saying there’s anything wrong with cars and houses and stuff like that.

[01:11:48] What he’s talking about here with balance and perspective. And, um, and as it says in the Bible to learn how to be content with whatever state that we’re in and to be happy there with, um, he’s [01:12:00] also talking about how, um, in the book of Hosea, how it talks about like the more God blessed people, it’s like the less, they want it to be close to him.

[01:12:08] He’s talking about not making idols out of the blessings that we have and remembering who it came from and being sort of at our passion is greatest for God of all things, no matter what, there’s also another part that says that the eye’s not satisfied with seeing nor the ear with hearing. And so we, so we just gotta mind ourselves and be careful how we let ourselves get carried away with things in there’s life.

[01:12:31] But that’s a, that’s a part of, you know, this life. And when, uh, when branch is talking about the Lord will tell us and deal with us, you know, always use the fit in church. In wonder when people would say the Lord spoke to them, or he showed them something. I’m like, okay, how, you know, how does this, how does that go?

[01:12:48] So it could be, for me, it’s in brings a lot. I’ve always been a gift that dreamer, and as I was a child, you know, things, that’s the, my dreams come true, you know, and stuff like that. It could be audible voice. It’s like [01:13:00] what we talked about earlier, it could be through a friend, a loved one, a family member, a relative, or a total stranger.

[01:13:07] It could be an inclination, a no. You know that it really comes deep within you, but you’ll know that it’s him without a shadow of a doubt. God speaks to us in many, many different ways. So when we say, God will tell you, he will talk to you. One thing I would suggest to add to your prayer life as you’re seeking this sort of God to speak to you, you know, and, and to really, I wish he’s going to do this anyway, but it never hurts to, I think, state the obvious, especially when you’re, or at least when you’re new with God, and you ask him to talk to you in a language or in a way that that’s gonna mean something to you.

[01:13:41] And so that you’ll know that it’s him and, um, 

[01:13:46] Branch: excellent, excellent, excellent point. You know, it, if you’re open to the Lord, he’ll answer, um, as nothing he wants more than for you to turn towards him so he can embrace you with all he [01:14:00] is. Um, it just, uh, and I don’t want you to think new cars. Aren’t nice. Uh, God wants us to be good stewards of the things that we have and the things that we get.

[01:14:14] If you look, if you know the stories in the old Testament, you know, virtually every wealthy person in the old Testament, um, gained their wealth through their obedience to God. And he made them even more well. When they stayed that course and stayed obedient. So what he did for them, he’ll do for you and me.

[01:14:36] Um, you know, I have, I was 40 years on the world’s path and have nothing but regrets for the damage I did and the people I hurt. Um, my 40 years on the spiritual path has been nothing but blessings. And, you know, I was homeless once. Like a lot of people, I started out at the bottom, like a lot of people, [01:15:00] but you know, every blessing that I have has come from him and I recognize that and what he has done for me and for others he’ll do for you.

[01:15:10] We’re not special. Um, we’re just here walking the path, just like you are trying to figure out, you know, what’s in our life for us and how do we be the best person we can be? 

[01:15:24] De’Vannon: You know, I was homeless at one point in here. It’s nothing like starting from the bottom and being rebuild. Um, I want to, we’re going to get into the whole, like self-confidence self-sufficiency movement and X, but just for a second, I wanted to talk about like your thoughts on tithing, because I know that’s, that’s a really big deal and people who are going to be new in the faith, especially if they come across any kind of Christian Church is going to be hit with offerings, top ties and offerings as they call it.

[01:15:57] And, um, From my [01:16:00] experience, it was always presented in a threatening way. Like if you don’t give this, then something bad will happen to you. If you do then great things are going to happen to you. And, um, and they use old tests, they use an old Testament scripture in Malakai, where it says that you’ll be cursed with a curse.

[01:16:18] You know, that that was going on with the years of her lives back then. And like I said before, when they had the meeting in the book of acts, they released us from everything that has to do with that culture, with the exception of eating strangled, with meat and, and crazy shit like that, that, you know, we wouldn’t, you know, who, who would want to do that anyway, but probably somebody we have to say that.

[01:16:37] But, um, so I don’t feel like tithing is necessary. I feel like it’s just like all of the other tradition from the old Testament. Like if you want to use it as a guide, if you want to do it phenomenal, if you don’t want to do it, you’re not about to get struck by lightning and maggots. And I’m about to eat of all your food, you know, which is something that happened when, when they left Egypt and the whole other thing, [01:17:00] but, you know, bad things are not going to happen to you.

[01:17:02] You’re not going to get flat tires and you’re going to get fired from your job. But because anybody new and brave is gone and somebody is going to try to get money out of them and they’re probably going to get threatened with it. And so I wanted to dive into that. What do you think about Tyler? 

[01:17:21] Branch: Okay, well, tithing cake cake that you know, was sort of the, the religious tithing originally was so that the church would have an income.

[01:17:35] Okay. It’s just like the original tithing in the old Testament was, so it was two-fold. It was so that the Levi’s, the priests would have, you know, food and, and an income. And, but it was the religious part of it was, it was the sacrifice for the people by the priest to God while Christ did away with that, because he’s the [01:18:00] sacrifice now.

[01:18:01] Um, so the old Testament tithing had a purpose, had a two-fold purpose. Um, that’s what grew into tithing for the church. Obviously now, uh, the church, any church has tithing for its self-sufficiency and support. However, I’m my personal belief is if a church needs income, the Lord will provide that income.

[01:18:31] You know, churches have. Large benefactors within them. And that whole structure has, has a Mead. My personal belief is it all belongs to God anyway, and he’ll take care of it. So I’m in agreement with you. Um, if you have, if you wish to Ty, go ahead. But tithing itself is not really in the [01:19:00] Bible. What’s in the Bible is the giving of first fruits and that’s where, what tithing was developed.

[01:19:08] That’s where tithing came from, sort of in the new Testament or the new church age. Um, first fruits were exactly that you give the first fruit, the first animal, whatever your first fruits of your success is, what you give to God. So my point is, if you want to give money to a church or some entity, that’s fine.

[01:19:36] If you’re tithing, if you choose to give your time, if you want to label it, that, uh, to the ASP CA or to world hunger or to. You know, we’ll save the whales. There’s lots of ways you can give from your stewardship being, um, tithing. Traditionally, [01:20:00] somehow has grown to be 10% out of the first fruits. The first fruits were 10% of giving to the Lord or to the Lord service.

[01:20:11] So as a Christian, I tie the, if you want to call it that, but I do it in causes that touch my heart, where I see a need. And so my tie thing is not necessarily to a church or a congregation or an organization. My gift that I give in terms of monetary, um, currency is always to a group or a cause or an effort that I have an affinity for some reason, you know, the Lord ticks my heart to give.

[01:20:54] So, you know, that’s how I tied and, and I give whatever I [01:21:00] moved to give. Um, at that point, uh, I rely on the Lord to tell me who to give to and how much to give. And so that’s my take on tithing. Um, I think that those who have should share. And I, I I’m, uh, grateful for benefactors at all, levels who look outside themselves and see a need somewhere that they can help fill.

[01:21:29] But yeah, I agree. There’s, you know, first thing the church is going to do is pass the plate and trying to get you to put in, and they’re going to pressure you to put in a certain amount. Um, you know, it, it shouldn’t be voluntary, uh, but they’ve got an agenda and they’ve got an operation to fund. And for some reason, a lot of them feel that, you know, the Lord’s not going to take care of that for them, but, uh, [01:22:00] that’s just, you know, it’s just a typical part of religion that seems out of character.

[01:22:07] Let me put it that way. Um, that God takes care of results. And, and, you know, I, I don’t know how big your church has to be or how many thousands of people you have to have sitting in the pews in order to fund it. But it seems to be a lot of Christian preachers and pastors out there who live a lot better than their congregations.

[01:22:30] De’Vannon: Yeah, that’s all a very nice way to put it. So, but somebody who’s new to fate, listen to that. I think we’ll be set free from that, that oppression, that financial burden. 

[01:22:42] Branch: It’s not your obligation. It’s not your obligation. As a child of God looking, you know, to be fed the word of God, to fund the people who are supposed to be giving you that word, their obligation is to feed you spiritually.

[01:22:59] [01:23:00] Their, you know, their obligation is not to take your funds from you to, you know, spend as they wish. I that’s just personal opinion. 

[01:23:14] De’Vannon: Okay. There, ain’t nothing wrong with that, man. So let’s, let’s pivot to, um, so how, how you to, to, uh, focus on like self. So w what you call like a, um, a self sin is, has to do with what you call like our vertically indulgent, 21st century vanity self-righteousness self pity, self confidence, self self, self, self, self.

[01:23:40] Um, and you say the combinations of these self sit-ins are the pinnacle of our society as seen in our egotism, exhibitionism and self promotion. And when I, when I read this, what I was thinking about is how, like more like of a new age and movement and mindset of everything that we need is within us. You know, you know, [01:24:00] all, all of the answers are within, you know, we look within and so there’s a turning away from God and what, and all that God is supposed to be to all the answers lie within.

[01:24:10] Um, you can hold a pendulum and think about whether or not you should make a decision on something. If it’s certain spins to the left, then that’s the left. If that means left for you, if it’s spinning to the right then that’s all right. And then, and then that’s a positive answer. That’s that? That’s your belief system.

[01:24:27] And so I, I’m not really in agreement with that. I, I choose to be more like I don’t have the answer, so I’m going to go to God for the answers, rather than the answers within me for everything. Now, that’s not an abandonment of common name sense and knowing how to tie my shoes and to do stuff in life and be a functioning adult.

[01:24:48] But people who believe, you know, in the self to that extent, you know, constantly say, you know, I have everything that I need already within me, but there is no. And it came from God that doesn’t, [01:25:00] that doesn’t, that does not follow their conversation. I think that this movement came about, or because of the way that the church has been negative and badgering the people and making people feel less than and unworthy.

[01:25:15] So. You know, I have friends that worship the universe and all kinds of things like that. I don’t, or you’ll never hear me say the universe this until my life, because I don’t believe in that. And I don’t go trying to convert them and tell them that they’re wrong or anything like that. But what I’m saying is I agree that there is a strong focus on self to the abandonment of God.

[01:25:38] And I think it’s because of what an asshole, the church has been.

[01:25:46] Branch: The church, every church has an agenda. I mean, every religion has an agenda that’s, you know, and that’s that you can get to God, but it has to be through us. And if that’s, if you’re going to [01:26:00] come to us, then there’s a cost or payment that has to be made. You know, what you’re describing is real simple. If it’s going to be about self and it’s always been about self, you know, the Romans, the Greeks, the Byzantines, the Assyrians, every empire, every age, every millennia, the focus is on self because originally it was about survival.

[01:26:34] Um, you know, even the cave men thought 99% of the time about self, how are we going to get through the day. But if we go back, as far as the cave people, um, there was always this, something outside of self acknowledgement. [01:27:00] The sad part that I find today is, um, we, as people are enticed and driven and coerced and converted to think nothing except about self, um, what’s in it for me, you know, and it’s all about me, that sort of the mantra of post-modern existence and the more we are focused on self, the less we will be focused outside of self.

[01:27:34] And again, we can see this in the way that people treat each other people on a day-to-day basis. I I’ve never seen so much hate exhibited at a moment’s notice, um, up to, and including the lethal actions against people, just from the most minute, you know, you piss me off. So I [01:28:00] pull out a gun. I mean, that’s when you have a society that responds to literally every situation with negative response and negative action.

[01:28:14] It’s focus is all about self. And the reason is it’s devoid of spirituality. It’s devoid of something outside of self. You know, we live in a time where you hit it on the head way back when we started, when you talked about balance, you know, everything is really in balance. Um, it may seem like it’s skewed, but the truth is it is in balance.

[01:28:45] There always has to be a negative and a positive balance. It’s the problem is finding its equilibrium. And we live in a time where that equilibrium, because our entire [01:29:00] focus as people is generally about self. And, you know, I believe that it’s because we are devoid of spirituality. There has to be balanced.

[01:29:11] There has to be something that balances out that selfishness in us that self-centeredness in us. But the problem is our world shows us every day, minute by minute, you know, all about the benefits and possessions of those who are only concerned about self. And that’s what we’re told that we should believe too.

[01:29:38] And that’s what this country is exporting to the entire world. Everybody wants to live the American dream, no matter what country they’re in. Well, if they were really here today, they might second guess that thought and that desire, but we have exported this self, um, you know, everything for us, no matter [01:30:00] what it costs, no matter the damage that it costs, no matter what it pertains to, it’s all about us and we’ll do anything for self.

[01:30:11] And in that place, there is no, no spot for spirituality. Um, so, you know, without a spirit, you have nothing but self and this world just encourages more and more of that, you know, celebrity, um, excess, you know, God, how much money do you need? It’s like, it’s just crazy. And it’s all at the expense of other people.

[01:30:39] I mean, again, in our society, in our country today, we are, are damning, people’s economic and social opportunities, you know, legislatively. To restrict their ability to have a better life. Well, that’s all about [01:31:00] self and selfishness. There’s no spiritual cognition there. And I find that very disturbing in our government and in our leadership.

[01:31:10] Um, you know, and especially all of these people who claim to be Christians and their behavior certainly says that there’s something else. You know, what is it? Uh, the Bible says, you can tell the, the fruit by the tree or the tree by the fruit. Um, you only have to look at the way people behave and act and how they respond to know that what they say is the exact opposite.

[01:31:35] And that’s, um, you know, the exact opposite of the proof is lies. The exact opposite of God is the devil or evil. Um, so if you’re not going to have spirituality in your life, yeah, you’re going to have struggle and you’re going to have conflict. That’s the way it is. That’s the way of the world. It’s not there to build you up.

[01:31:56] It’s there to tear you down. The only way you can [01:32:00] even begin to think about acquiring some balance in your life is to activate that spiritual existence that lives within you. You said it earlier, if any, and that we all have that spirit within us. It’s part of our creation from the creator. It’s that spiritual energy.

[01:32:20] That inhabits our soul within this body and mind. But if it’s inactive, if it’s not working, it may know right from wrong, but it’s buried under layers of the world, which has navigated its moral compass and its ethical actions. That’s the character and nature of God is morality and ethics. Um, you know, without that spirituality, that spirit is not working when the, the spirit of Christ comes to live within you.

[01:32:55] That spirit within you gets activated and all of a sudden you [01:33:00] now know right from wrong, but you know, the why of right from wrong, you know, the moral and the ethical part of right and wrong. There’s, you know, there’s a reason it’s just not right or wrong. There’s a reason that it is right or wrong or legal or illegal.

[01:33:18] And when you have that spiritual understanding, then you see what the world is trying to do.

[01:33:30] De’Vannon: Absolutely. And, um, and in the book of Proverbs, it says, you know, get this, get that and get knowledge, get wisdom. But with, with all, with all you’re getting, get understanding. And so understanding is, is, is the principle is a key thing. You know, we got to understand what we’re doing while we’re doing it, not just doing something for the sake of doing it, or letting things happen to happen to us continuously without getting to the reasons why talking about things that we’re [01:34:00] really liking.

[01:34:02] Branch: Exactly. You’re right. Understanding is the application of the knowledge. You know, you can be the smartest guy in the room, but if you’re a doofus and you, you can’t interrelate with anybody or explain yourself to express yourself or make something happen. So they understand them. There’s no application there.

[01:34:20] Um, yeah, you hit it right on the head, bro. 

[01:34:25] De’Vannon: Uh, let’s see. Thank you, sir. So let’s, let’s talk about faith because this is another foundational thing that people are going to benefit from considering when they’re considering the Lord or whatever path of spirituality that they’re going to take to finally start doing something with their soul.

[01:34:46] And, um, you say faith is, you said, you said our common thread that ties all aspects of our spiritual life together is faith. Um, and you say faith from the book of Hebrews as being sure of what [01:35:00] we hope for and certain of what we do not see. Um, there’s another scripture that says that without faith, it is impossible to please God.

[01:35:09] And so you have a beautiful story from the, from the old Testament of how there was a time where the Lord sent in venom mistakes into the camp of Israel, because they hadn’t been talking shit against God and against Moses. And so they had been fucked up. And so the Lord sent vitamin steaks in there and it was killing them.

[01:35:30] And so Moses being the big hearted, humble servant and mediator that he was went and talked to God about it. The Lord tells him to create a Braun steak and put it on a stick and set it up in the camp. And so whenever somebody got bit by a snake, if they looked onto this bronze, uh, snake, you know, and they would live.

[01:35:53] And so that snake was meant to represent Jesus, because as you said, the whole old Testament is really about Jesus and [01:36:00] the old Testament’s kind of like a, kind of like a reflection of him. Whereas the new Testament are more like the fulfillment of him. And so I thought that that was a beautiful way to exemplify faith of these people, looking at this bronze statue at the, had to believe the words that Moses said, God said, and believe that there was power through this obedient act to be healed and not die.

[01:36:24] And it made me think of when Jesus was crucified, there was. A thief that was crucified with him on the right and another one on the left. And, um, one of them riled against him and threw shade. And then the other one would say it, you know what I believe in the Lord told him, you know what, this day you will be with me in paradise.

[01:36:46] And you know, God is a Trinity. So he’s got the father in heaven, the spirit here and also on the cross. So let’s how Jesus can die. And you can also still be with him in paradise. And, um, [01:37:00] and so, yeah, it made me because the thief on the cross had enough faith to believe in Jesus. Now he’s just got let out of jail, but not lot of jail execution executed in jail from heaven had been a criminal.

[01:37:13] Um, I believe he was a thief. I know that they were a criminal and um, now he didn’t have time to, to go do any good works for God. He didn’t have time to seek the holy ghost, which is not, we won’t be talking about the holy ghost today, but that’s, uh, but, um, but that is the spirit of God. And you can bug me field with the, with the spirit and all that, you know, he didn’t have time to do anything.

[01:37:35] The only thing he had time to do was to simply believe, like you said earlier, that Jesus was the son of God period. And that was all that was necessary. That faith for him to go to heaven. So talk to us about how foundational faith is.

[01:37:54] Branch: Yeah. Is spirituality in action. [01:38:00] Um, that’s the most simplest way I can try to express it. It’s faith is the foundation of our belief that the, our spirituality, everything in our spirituality encompasses is true. What you just said is so important for people all over the world, but particularly Christians.

[01:38:31] The one thing that we need to remember to do is before we take our last breath, we have to reassert our belief that Jesus is and was the Christ. Um, so many people, you know, again, Christians claim to be Christians, but are not necessarily living the Christian life. Um, not emulating Christ in thought and word indeed.[01:39:00] 

[01:39:00] So it’s important as often as possible, but certainly before we take our last breath, just as the thief did to reassert our belief, that Christ is. Truly the son of God. Um, again, the great thing about God’s love is that’s all you need to do. You don’t need to do any works. You don’t need to do any missions.

[01:39:23] You don’t need to, you know, go out of your way in your life to do anything the name or, or for the name of God, his desire for you as his creation and as an individual is that you returned to him. And that reconciliation takes place by your belief in your heart. That Christ was who he says he was, and that you confess it with your mouth.

[01:39:56] First Corinthians 15 Dean one through [01:40:00] four, says it all. And I often say, especially in my eschatology writings, you know, if you get to that point and, and you are on the precipice of it, death, if you will remember that particular scripture for, uh, first Corinthians 15, one through four, or Romans 10, nine, and 10, if you know those scriptures, believe those scriptures in your heart.

[01:40:31] And we’ll confess that with you, your mouth you’re covered no matter what you’ve done, no matter what. You know what you’ve said and didn’t do that’s the key to your salvation is believing that Christ was Jesus was the Christ who he said he was who God, the father said he was and who the holy spirit said he was and be willing to confess that [01:41:00] with your mouth, um, just as the thief did.

[01:41:04] And that’s what he did. He believed Christ and he confessed Christ. Um, and that’s, that’s how great the love of God is no matter what you’ve done or who you are, if you can do those two things, you know, with your heart and your soul, um, you have a guarantee of eternal life, 

[01:41:29] De’Vannon: you sure do. And uh, now I want to, on a part of your book that I thought were just absolute, not even gold or platinum or titanium or whatever it is, that’s super, super, super costly and highly valuable.

[01:41:46] Oh, the purple like they used to wear back in the old Testament days, something, something there’s just a good, that’s a good thing all around. So y’all would branch DDoS. He took seven of the [01:42:00] world’s belief systems, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hindu. Animism and atheism. And then he asked seven important questions that most people are going to wonder about.

[01:42:13] Now we’re going to go through and answer these questions for Christianity, but it is clearly laid out in the book and easy to read for the other six religions. And I think it’s so cool that it’s all there laid out. So you can do your own comparison and see what speaking to you as, as the first question as how did we get here?

[01:42:31] And you say, God created the universe, this world and everything on it in six days. Um, now there’s people who, um, so you have like the big bang theory. Some people feel like we call it other primordial goo and everything like that. Personally, I don’t feel like we couldn’t have the one without the other. I think maybe God’s spoken.

[01:42:55] That was the big bang, you know, whenever, you know, he was a [01:43:00] beginning, everything. And, um, you know, I read the book of Genesis, which is the first book of the Bible. Like, it seems like to me, the earth is here already when the book of Genesis opens in the spirit is like moving on the, on the waters already.

[01:43:15] And so for me, I think that that accounts for like the dinosaurs and different things like that, cause it seems like there was some sort of planetary formation or some sort of land or something that was here already when the book of Genesis open. So I don’t see why we couldn’t have had. A big bang in God and that, and the two be tied together.

[01:43:38] But 

[01:43:40] Branch: I, I, I think you’re right. Um, what I need to make clear that what it says there for each of those religions is what that religions, traditions believe in purport. Okay. It’s not what I believe. I I’m [01:44:00] that section on Christianity is what the Christian, um, tradition says is true. Okay. Um, yeah. That’s that those are not my beliefs.

[01:44:17] Yeah. Yeah. Each, each one of those belief systems, those religions that are in that questioning process, that’s what that religion purports to be true. Okay. That’s not my personal belief. My personal belief is a little bit further back in the book after those, um, seven are presented to answer the question briefly, I believe, as you believe, I believe that God was the initiator of the big bang.

[01:44:54] I believe that his design was by intelligent [01:45:00] design is his universe is intelligently designed. I believe that evolution is his process. Um, I, you know, I don’t believe the creator creation theory is the traditional Christian theory. I think science disproves that I do, however, believe the six day creation theory has a political, um, valuation too, the 6,000 years of human history.

[01:45:43] Um, you know, I believe that homosapiens in our, the next evolutionary step from Cro-Magnon and meander fall and some of the other, um, hominoid OIC species that came before. I believe that [01:46:00] the, um, incident ration and the installation of cognitive reasoning, critical analysis and language that sets the home nodes apart.

[01:46:18] Was, uh, I think the spirit of God came upon Adam as one of those existing creatures on the planet. It’s sort of the next evolutionary step in God’s process to, you know, bring the world to where it is today. So there’s more of my personal exposition, a little bit further back in the book. 

[01:46:46] De’Vannon: And then I just want to throw out, or we move on to the purpose of life.

[01:46:49] Is there, there are those who hold to the belief that the six days in Genesis are not a literal six days. Like it could be like thousands of years in between each day. [01:47:00] And I think where they’re pulling from is there is a scripture in the Bible that says a day with the Lord is like a thousand years, you know?

[01:47:06] Um, because the way he views time since he’s eternal is different, but some people felt like it took, uh, like many, many years for those six days to actually materialize rather than a 24 hour day. Like what we’re accustomed to. I don’t necessarily agree or disagree with that because my focus isn’t on like now and like eternity, as opposed to, you know, exactly if it was six real days or 6,000 years or whatever the case may be.

[01:47:34] But for people who may be grappling with, well, how could you do this in six days? Yeah, he could, or he may have decided to marinate on it. You know, time is a little bit irrelevant when it comes to God. That’s something. That I believe he created for us since we’re like finite in this physical form. 

[01:47:52] Branch: Um, well here again, here again, it’s it’s religion trying to manipulate and [01:48:00] morph God into something that they can easily explain, you know, to the, I don’t want to say it this way, but uneducated and unknowing masters, you have to remember when religions, you know, came into being, most people weren’t educated.

[01:48:18] Most people’s soul existence was survival day to day. And so there had to be a way for religions to make God’s existence, palatable and understandable. Um, you know, in simple terms and, and it wasn’t like, well, let’s hammer out the truth because a, we don’t know what the truth looks like. You know, we, we only have what’s come down traditionally through the religion.

[01:48:52] So yeah, there’s, it can, that’s the, that’s the problem with religious [01:49:00] doctrine, it’s interpreted for a specific purpose at the expense of the relationship with God is second. You know, I feel just the opposite. The relationship with God is primary. And the essential once you’ve got that, then you can grapple with, you know, the interpretation of God.

[01:49:25] If you’ve got the spirit of God within you, then you can take all of those things with a grain of salt or with as much validation as you wish. The important thing is you’ve got a spiritual relationship ship with God he’s eternal and you’re right. His time is different than our concept of time. I mean, we try to live in a linear, uh, world law speaking.

[01:49:52] Um, God is omnipresent. So time is unnecessary for him, [01:50:00] right? We’re trying to make sense of something that we don’t understand. We know that we believe that he exists. Well about all we know, you know, so how do we frame that? How do we erect some kind of a system where things make sense? And so this is where religions, you know, for again, their own purposes, whatever those might have been, or may be, um, our cart before the horse.

[01:50:30] And in my opinion, let’s get the spiritual grounding established and then we can argue and discuss about six day, 6,000 years or six millennial. 

[01:50:44] De’Vannon: Yeah. Right. And what you were saying about religion or that God or religion is going to be put first, it reminded me of how, and this is something that I think is important for people new in the faith, so that when you come against people who are trying to [01:51:00] fit you into a mold or enforced rules upon you, and you start to feel oppressed and uncomfortable and unhappy, um, there’s a scene in the Bible where Jesus is walking through a field and eating corn with his disciples, like on the Sabbath day.

[01:51:11] And they’re not supposed to, to do that. And, or, oh, and, and, and, oh, wait that, I think though, maybe to like the. Yes, it was on the Sabbath day. And then he reminded them of how king David ate the bread that was meant for the priest and stuff like that, which was basically like a bending of the rules. And then, so Jesus was basically telling them, and these were the religious people of the day, trying to tell the son of God that he didn’t know the rules and he was bringing the rules.

[01:51:39] And so he was telling them, he told them, this is one of my favorite things of all the whole Bible. And he said that basically rules are made for people, not people for rules. And so, or, you know, until if it comes down to it, you put people first, you know, at the end of the day, and then you deal with all of the doctorate and [01:52:00] stuff later, and you change it if you ask too, but, but people first, and when you put people first in relationship, you know, gets put higher on your spectrum, then rigid rules and things like that, that you will not change or take a second, look at, be humble enough to take a second look at.

[01:52:17] And, um, yeah, 

[01:52:19] Branch: religions and religions and politicians like rules because it, it keeps keep, keeps the control and the power in their hands. 

[01:52:29] De’Vannon: Right? It does. But, um, but they not going to be able to keep it forever because God has power over these things. So then what is the purpose of life? Um, under this section, you say.

[01:52:45] Um, the philosophy is that life finds meaning and purpose in a fulfilled relationship with God. The one who created us. I agree with that. I think that speaks back to how we were talking about balance and find intending to the spirit, you know, in everything [01:53:00] too. 

[01:53:02] Branch: Well, I think the purpose of, I think the purpose of God is twofold.

[01:53:05] Number one, to know that God exists the 

[01:53:11] De’Vannon: purpose, who, who is, what is, what is God is next? So just the purpose 

[01:53:16] Branch: of that purpose of life is to know that God exists. And then to know God, that’s his character and nature who he is through Christ. And that’s why I believe we’re here. That’s what I think the purpose of life is to know God, and then to know God through Christ, I can find no other reason, rational reason, or irrational reason for us to be here.

[01:53:45] Um, it just I’d love. That’s that’s what it is for me. It’s it’s to know God is real to know he exists and to know who he is through Christ because [01:54:00] Christ being of God being God, um, we know how he would respond. He showed us how he responded in every situation. Thought word, indeed. This is the greatest thing about the Bible in my estimation is there’s no situation or problem that exists that the Bible does not address.

[01:54:24] Um, it can only be the word of God that is, has that greater knowledge to be able to handle anything that man can come up with. Um, so for me, that’s the purpose of life and those people who refuse for whatever reason, you know, they’re missing out in my estimation on the glory and the blessings of life.

[01:54:52] And they’re going to miss out on, you know, even greater blessings after life. 

[01:54:58] De’Vannon: So I want to talk about what you just [01:55:00] said about how, how the Bible addresses every kind of, you know, everything that we might face. So I both agree and disagree with that in. So like I think, I think that the answers are there.

[01:55:17] But it may be like E like you could really have to learn to search for them. So like say I was born with birth at both the penis and vagina, and we was called like a hermaphrodite. And so, you know, some of my parents have to pick one of the two genders. Maybe they pick one. And then, uh, you know, and now I may, might be a male who feels like a woman in a woman’s body.

[01:55:41] Well, they’re really, in my opinion is no roadmap for that on the apparent surface in the Bible. And then now later on, if I want to get transgender surgery, you know, then the church is going to tell me that, you know, I, you know, um, the devil is in me, you know, [01:56:00] and everything like that without even knowing my medical history and how I might have a hormonal imbalance causing that.

[01:56:07] But so for me, if I would have looked through the Bible, just try to solve something because people are going to go where there is no transsexuals in the Bible. And there wasn’t anybody born with, you know, a penis and vagina and the Bible. So how was absolutely everything in the Bible? I would just go back to when, when the Lord was saying that the judge or the people to walk in love.

[01:56:27] So whatever it is that a person has decided to do at the end of the day, there should be no judgment there in the first place. And, um,

[01:56:37] And then, and did really, really focusing on the love part there AC when situations like that come up, especially in my community and the LGBTQ community, a lot of people, you know, look into looking through the Bible and they don’t feel like absolutely every answer is there because it seems like a lot of times our situations are so far from, [01:57:00] you know, things that were happening back in that day.

[01:57:03] And people can really feel isolated that way. Then people may even use the Bible to try to come against us. So then what do you have to say about very, very, very, you know, far reaching unique circumstances that people may come across. It’s still yet we’re encouraging them to go to the Bible and look for answers.

[01:57:26] Branch: I love it. As you’re talking, I’m thinking like 10 different things. Sorry to answer you. First of all, let’s talk about the hermaphrodite situation. No stuff happens in nature, right? It happens a plant or an insect or an animal gives birth to hundreds or thousands or millions of offspring. Right? And the reason that that happens is most of those in nature may not survive.

[01:57:59] And [01:58:00] for the species to continue, these kinds of things happen. We see instances where you may see it Siamese twins, you know, or a goat with two heads, or, um, I know there’s a thing on YouTube where there’s, you know, freaky people and three legs and all these kinds of things. Those things happen in nature.

[01:58:22] And it’s not necessarily God willed. It’s just those kinds of things happen. Um, I often think about, you know, people whose children have terminal illnesses, right? And I often get the question, why do bad things happen to good people? Well, you know, you have to realize that some children. Or born with deformities for whatever reason.

[01:58:51] I mean, it could be drugs or it could be a lot of things, but it could just be nature, you know, in genetics, some children are born or [01:59:00] contract terminal diseases early on and their lifespan is very short, you know? And so why does that happen? Why do they have to suffer that? Well, that’s part of nature.

[01:59:16] That’s part of life. Some people, you know, have these things happen to them. Pardon me? I always think the biblical thing that’s missing is those parents, wherever they may be from damming God for this happening to praying to God that he corrects it, you know, anywhere on that spectrum believers or unbelievers, um, blaming or asking for blessings.

[01:59:50] My personal opinion is that situation is so that they can share as much love as possible [02:00:00] with that individual while they can, and to come to the knowledge that, you know, God is working in their lives. Um, you know, so many people face so many tragedies in life, some of them have their own doing, and some of them just, you know, a roll of the dice or unlucky in the draw, um, all of those things, all of those tests that happen, all of those challenges are for us to remember God is there and he is trying to impress upon us as the people going through these situations, the importance of that relationship with him.

[02:00:52] And I know that, you know, it’s hard for some people to grasp, but everything that we [02:01:00] experience is a test or a trial to make us aware of God’s presence in our life. And for us to be more like him in that situation. Now the LGBQT thing. Okay.

[02:01:20] I believe we’re all children of God. Okay. We’re all creations of God. We all have a purpose and a design. Um, whether it’s genetics or a choice. For me is not the important issue for me. The important issue is to, if you are in that category. Yeah. There’s people who are going to be ugly up to the point of trying to kill you for whatever their reasons are.

[02:01:52] And I don’t condone any of that, but God loves all of his children. And again, [02:02:00] regardless of your lifestyle or your choices, if the spirit of God lives within you, he will guide your steps in your lifestyle. He wants you to be a loving individual. You know, if you’re in love with a person of the same gender as you are, that’s your business.

[02:02:21] That’s not the religious rights business. That’s not the politicians business, that’s your choice in your life. And, you know, whatever that looks like you will atone for an answer for that when your time comes again, if you’re a believer and follower of Christ, if that’s considered a sin, your sin is covered.

[02:02:48] You know, we don’t know if they’re hermaphrodites in the old Testament. We certainly are told that there are people that were demon possessed, whatever that looks like, where they really possessed by demons, or [02:03:00] did they have some physical or neurological issue that, that community had no knowledge of. So they said they were demon possessed, you know, if they had epilepsy, um, if they were mad, all of these things that we have more knowledge about today, yay.

[02:03:19] More scientific knowledge, more medical knowledge, more intellectual knowledge about some of these misfits of nature. You know, these, um, diseases and things. I don’t want to say misfits, but these complications of natural process we know more about than they did in the Bible. Um, the Bible is one book of many books in the Canon and the Apocrypha.

[02:03:47] So we don’t have all the information. I stand by the fact that I believe the Bible it’s not, doesn’t have all the answers, but it certainly has the [02:04:00] information and knowledge to guide you two solutions. And you have to read between the lines, you can’t, you know, read a line and necessarily take it literal for every specific instance.

[02:04:14] But if you read what Christ said, And you understand the teachings and you read the synoptic gospels, and especially the gospel of John, you have a sense of what a relationship with God looks like, what its purpose is. And that relationship, that spiritual understanding will help you better understand your world and the anomalies in your world.

[02:04:45] When you have the spirit of God, you can look past the label and the hypocrisy and the self-righteousness and all of the damaging things that are said and see [02:05:00] the person for the person that they are. That’s what spirituality does for you. It allows you to come from a loving place, so you can see another loving place.

[02:05:13] You can see the internal, loving nature of the person. You know, I have gay friends. Um, I have lesbian friends. They’re my friends. I, I don’t damn them for their choices. I it’s not, I ne I don’t condone them nor, you know, that’s their choice, their lifestyle and their choices are their choices. I don’t know them.

[02:05:42] Enough to decide whether it’s good or bad. It’s not my business. I look at them as a loving person or a person in search of information or help. I look at them as I treat them the way I want to be treated. That’s the [02:06:00] best I can do. I am not. I live in a glass house and I’m not about to throw stones. I’ve got enough things to account for in my life.

[02:06:10] That’s not the issue. The issue is how do I become a better person? You become a better person, become by becoming a spiritually grounded person. When you’re spiritually grounded, you can then use your spiritual strength to see the truth. And when you see the truth, the rest of the bullshit falls away. You see the person for the person they are and not the person they’ve been labeled.

[02:06:40] Um, you know, you can see God working through the trials and the tribulations that he has people experiencing. He’s trying to get their attention. That’s what this is all about so that you make better choices in your life. If you want to make better [02:07:00] choices in your life, get God in your life, get his spirit living within you.

[02:07:05] Then the rest of them. Stuff will become self-evident and you see what the fallacy of all of this kind of hypocritical, um, belief and actions are all about, you see how small these people are, who are trying to impose on other people, their so-called values. If they had values, they’d see the beauty in nature around them.

[02:07:34] They’d be concerned about the people in their lives and they wouldn’t treat people like they were less than who they are valuable and worthy. These are all choices you have to make as an individual. The Bible can guide you in knowing more so that you understand more. Does it have all the answers, not to [02:08:00] specific questions, but it has all the solutions to the dilemmas that we find ourselves in.

[02:08:07] We have to remember that most of those dilemmas are self-made by us for us. You know, when people, um, when people have negative interactions with someone else, most of the time, their issue is that actually something within themselves and the excuses and the blame that they try and transfer on to someone else.

[02:08:36] Is actually something in their core that they can’t deal with. And as a result, because they don’t want to look at it and they don’t want to deal with the reality of what it is and how it makes them feel. They thrust, outward all of this venom and all of this hate trying to take them out of the [02:09:00] situation.

[02:09:01] But what we find is when they get, you know, to be themselves again, when they’re alone with what they’ve done and what they’ve said, they actually start to realize that the problem is within them. But rather than correcting it, they then start to beat themselves up about it. And this only makes, makes it go deeper and makes it harder for them.

[02:09:24] And they lash out more and more. I mean, we live in a world where you have to be wary every day of the people you come into contact with and how they may respond to you or the event you’re in, come from a higher spiritual place. And you’ll see who they truly are. That way. If they’re a loving person who you want to have in your life, you can invite them in their life regardless of their label or their lifestyle.

[02:09:57] If you recognize in them hate [02:10:00] and vitriol. And negativity and basically get them out of your life, you know, turn your back on them, leave, put them out of your sphere of influence. This is how you control your life and the people who are in it except the good for good and shun, the evil for what it is.

[02:10:22] Don’t be diluted by what the world is, is clamoring for you to hear and the way they want you to behave, come from your highest loving self, and you’ll see reality for what it truly is. And you’ll see the truth in that reality. Then you can make your choices and there’ll be better choices. 

[02:10:45] De’Vannon: I know that’s right.

[02:10:47] And hopefully, hopefully people, especially those who identify with conservative values will listening to what he has to say. And, um, I [02:11:00] appreciate the climate of this, of the world and the country now because it’s causing all of the ugliness. That’s been in a lot of us to come forth and now people are going to have to make a decision one way or the other.

[02:11:10] And I think this is a good time of spiritual refinement for the, um, yeah. 

[02:11:17] Branch: Yeah. Hate, hate, hate, and racism and homophobia. Xenophobia. These things have been hiding in the shadows. You know, basically forever, hasn’t been 10 years or 20 years or 200 years in this country. It’s endemic in the nature of man. Um, we love to put labels on other people so that we can, um, disregard their value.

[02:11:44] And the more people we get have the same thought process, you know, then we get power to suppress. Um, this is just endemic of man, but we can change it. I agree. It’s good that it’s coming to a head now it’s coming to the forefront, but it did in the [02:12:00] sixties, you know, and it did in the twenties. It has, it comes with every era there’s this backlash or this search for truth again, but the evil that’s hiding under all of these labels has always been there.

[02:12:16] The problem is it’s powerful. You know, we can’t, we can’t change what’s going on in our Congress today by the Democrats doing nothing. You know, we can’t keep giving this bipartisan bullshit lip service. Um, Biden. You’ve got the house, you’ve got the Senate, you’ve got the executive, do something, you’ve got 50 votes, do something, you know, quit pussy footing around and, and being another, do nothing leader.

[02:12:52] The country is clamoring for truth and justice. And we have no leaders who are willing to step up, [02:13:00] but you can be damn guaranteed. The GOP and the GQ P are going to step up and do whatever they can to suppress and oppress people in this country. Um, we’re in a make or break point. And you know, the problem is evil is strong and evil is conniving and evil will do whatever it can to suppress the truth.

[02:13:30] It’s not an easy fight. You have to demand justice inequality. Um, they’re not gonna give up easy out guarantee you, they are in it for the long haul. That’s the thing about the, the right. They understand it’s a long haul game. It’s just like Christianity. It’s not one and done. Hey, I’m a Christian. God fix it for me.

[02:13:54] That’s not what it’s all about. It’s about taking up your cross, your [02:14:00] burden, whatever that may be, whatever label has been thrust upon you. And now you’ve allowed it to identify who you are. You have to take up that every day and fight. You have to deal with that every day. But if you will stand by the truth and fight for the truth, the truth will win.

[02:14:21] Ultimately spiritual strength is what will give the truth its place and its victory 

[02:14:31] De’Vannon: here, here. And I hope the Democrats get, get to moving. So not just choose to believe they have a plan and it’s gonna happen one day. So, um, we’ve already addressed the remainder of the questions. I’ll read them, but, um, it was, uh, who or what is in God who are humans?

[02:14:52] What is sin? How do you explain pain and suffering, um, has not communicated with us. [02:15:00] How, and then how do you find God? Uh, I feel like we’ve covered all of that. Um, hopefully people have a good understanding of, um, a better understanding of the nature of God. You know, God is Trinity, the God, the father, I mean father, the son and the spirit, but what is more, you know, his character and personality to that.

[02:15:22] We’ve tried to bring in. In this, in this interview. And now I want to, um, 

[02:15:30] Branch: Hey Davanon, before we go on, go on to the next one for your listeners who, who may be searching. I think that last question. How do you find God? If you’re, if you’re choosing to find God as a Christian or want to be Christian, uh, go to Matthew seven, seven, and eight, and it tells you how to find God.

[02:15:53] It says, ask, ask, seek, and knock, ask God to come [02:16:00] into your life, seek God and knock on the door. That’s how you can find God if you want to be a Christian. And, uh, that may be a good starting step for those people who are wondering, okay, after listening to all this, you know, how do I start? How do I find God?

[02:16:18] How do I initiate that first step on that path? And Matthew seven, seven, and eight. We’ll give you that start. 

[02:16:26] De’Vannon: Okay, cool. Right on. And so then, uh, we got two more points to cover and we were, we were, but the one other question is what happens when you die? Uh, that ones, um, we hadn’t really quite covered yet.

[02:16:43] And I know that’s a huge thing that’s on people’s mind, you know, will I reincarnate, you know, you know, so. I agree with what you have on your book that you know, that we won’t be coming back as butterflies, you know, or, or, or, um, stingrays or whatever [02:17:00] it is that we, we might find to be beautiful. Uh, I believe that in part, because of, of people who, uh, who dead people who haven’t gone on, who communicate with me and dreams and things like that, you know, in that form.

[02:17:13] So like, if, so, say like my it’s like my pastor who died over three years ago is coming to me through dreams and telling me what’s happening in my life and things like that. Okay. So she was a, a bird or something like that, or another person somewhere, you know, only God can be in two places at one time.

[02:17:33] So you can’t be in the spirit realm, manifesting in the form that you are on this earth and then living a new life in another country or, or whatever it is reincarnation is supposed to work, I think is a risky gamble to take, to, to think that you’re going to come back as, as a dragon, a fly or whatever.

[02:17:52] And, you know, cause if you’re wrong about that, you know, then you, you know, I’m not going to go well for you in the afterlife [02:18:00] because of how you stayed in here. You said there’s no reincarnation, no annihilation, which means you will continue to have some sort of being, and also no automatic entry into heaven.

[02:18:13] Uh, like, like there is no nothing that you’re going to be in some type of way. In an eternal form. When you depart this plane of existence, some people believe you automatically go to heaven. Uh, the book is saying not so with that, and you sum it up like this. If you have a relationship with God, then you no more pain and suffering.

[02:18:31] Once you die, you don’t have a relationship with God. Then, you know, then, then God will allow you to continue to be a part from him for the rest of eternity, which means you, you live with a constant sense of regret remorse because you know, you have no more second chances. And while you get lived, you had all the chances.

[02:18:50] Um, not so much of the flames of hell is the worst part of not being with God is the fact that he’s not there because we know from the story of the [02:19:00] Hebrew boys being thrown in the furnace, that of God is with you. He can take the heat out of the flames. So the problem is with hell is that there is no God there.

[02:19:10] And that is in God, gives us any kind of, sense of comfort that we might know or have known in his life. So if you can imagine no comfort, no peace, no nothing. And that’s the worst part of hell. And I liken it like this. I view my relationship with God is kind of like a long distance relationship. And we talk over the phone or we text, we can’t zoom.

[02:19:32] And if we do, then I can’t see his face because the Bible says that no man can see God’s face and lips. And so I’m the younger person ever came close to that was when God took Moses and put him, dug out a part of the mountain and stuck in men and God walked by and allowed Moses to see the form of God from like the back.

[02:19:53] Um, I had a dream one time, like me and God were walking on dark clouds, hand in hand. [02:20:00] And it was like, he was a big faceless version. And I was like a small faceless version of like the same thing. And we just add on like robes and gowns and stuff like that. And so then when I finally see his face, it’s going to be like, I’ve been fostering a relationship with somebody long through long distance communication, and you can get, feel close to people, you know, through long distance.

[02:20:22] And then when you’re finally physically buying them, then it kind of locks in and solidifies everything. So is, this is really common sense to me. You wouldn’t want to spend eternity with somebody who didn’t bother to get to know you when know, when they had a chance and God’s not going to do that either.

[02:20:37] And so it’s just, it’s just simple customs and courtesies to me. And so, but what’s your, what would you tell like the new people considering faith about a death, the afterlife and reincarnation and all that? 

[02:20:54] Branch: Well, every, every religious, every spiritual, every faith belief [02:21:00] has their interpretation of what death is and what its consequences are.

[02:21:06] Um,

[02:21:10] Man, I believe that God wants all of his creatures to be with him. There’s different understandings of, you know, death in the grave, so to speak or death in a purgatory or death in Haiti’s, um, depending on the religion, there’s different concepts of those who are taken from death, from the sleeping death, with Christ, when he ascended, um, there’s different, you know, eschatological connotations of those who die between his death and the end times, and then those who die in the tribulation.

[02:21:56] Um, I’m of the mind that [02:22:00] reincarnation is a process is a possibility. It’s one way that I can accept and explain, um, people who have died, who are not exposed to the knowledge of Christ and his presence. Um, reincarnation would give them that spiritual energy, uh, an opportunity to come to know him again.

[02:22:29] Um, I believe that Christ is the way to eternal life. I think that there, uh, there is and will be a hell for those whose heinous disbelief and actions, merit them, that kind of suffering. I believe that there may be a Bolivian for a lot of souls who never, um, came to Christ when exposed to the [02:23:00] gospel and chose not to be believers, uh, count it’s so sort of convoluted in, in depth.

[02:23:09] My belief and my choice to share is God is a God of infinity and presence. And his desire is to have as many of his children and his believers there with him in eternity. Um, we, those believers will live in the kingdom of Christ. Um, he and the father will be there in spirit and in essence, and Jesus will be there in reality, and in being, um,

[02:23:54] those who choose not to believe in Christ. May or may not be somewhere [02:24:00] else. And those who deserve to suffer for their disbelief and their actions, you know, John 15, 22 really explains it very well. And what it says in essence is when I came, this is Christ speaking, you know, had they, I came and gave them the opportunity to believe they chose not to believe.

[02:24:33] So they are no longer covered. Their disbelief is no longer covered by their ignorance. And I think this is important, you know, for people trying to make that choice. If you hear about Christ and you hear the gospel, as we said before, you have a choice to make whether or not you’re going to go down that path and believe what he says and what is said about [02:25:00] him.

[02:25:01] Once you’ve heard that invitation and that gospel, you can no longer use. Well, nobody ever told me, or I didn’t know that, or I was never exposed that that excuse doesn’t fly anymore. You had that opportunity to you willingly turned your back on God by willingly disregarding and turning your back on Christ.

[02:25:27] So, whatever the consequence of that choice is that’s a consequence you will have to suffer, you know, when you stand before Christ as the judge of this world. Um, and because you didn’t accept him, you will not be granted his unconditional love and his forgiveness. So what happens at death, you know, my guess is as good as anybody else nobody’s come back except [02:26:00] Christ to tell us.

[02:26:01] So if you want to believe in him and believe his words, we have that choice and that obligation, then should we choose? We have that obligation to be obedient children for those who choose to believe other religions, um, and, and other things, um, they’ll, you know, they’ll be where they’re at and be dealing with what they’re dealing with and whether that’s some kind of presence with, or without God or some kind of oblivion, you know, I was here and then the lights out.

[02:26:38] Yeah. I know nothing. Remember nothing am nothing, you know, I don’t know. But, uh, my choice from all I read and all I’ve been taught and all of experiences, I’m going to roll the dice with Christ. He, and God may not be real, but I’m not taking that chance. Um, [02:27:00] because everything he’s done in my life proves that he’s real to me and everything he said has come true for me in my life.

[02:27:09] And again, I’m not special. What he’s done for me, he’ll do for all of your listeners or anybody out here that hears this from now on. Um, his desire is to have each of us with him. That’s what reconciliation is about. That’s what redemption is about, but he’s drawn a line in the sand. And for those who refuse to believe they will not benefit or reap the blessings of, you know, eternal life with him.

[02:27:42] De’Vannon: And I, I love the other, the Liberty that you give to people of different face around the world is very open-minded and very humble because, um, you know, you allow in your book, you talk about Jesus and other, what many people who else, well, some amount of people [02:28:00] refer to as the ascended masters. Um, you talk about Moses Buddha, Confucius, Lao say, which has to do.

[02:28:08] How wisdom. Um, and you don’t take the way, the validity of those people, you know, you know, in terms of the, um, in this part of the book, under the Christianity section, you know what, what you’re saying here, this is under the Christianity section. This is like, kind of like your take after, after that section, you’re saying basically these people all came from God and only the, the, the, the primary difference is that the only one who said they were the son of God, where Jesus, you said the other people being man of truth, since they weren’t there to lie, they all had good stuff to say.

[02:28:43] They never claimed to be the son of God because, and, um, but you know, you’re giving people freedom. Okay. If you want to believe in Muhammad, great, you know, we’re Buddha great. You know, often think sometimes, you know, someone was born in China or in Indonesia or someplace [02:29:00] that does not have, you know, a lot of Christianity prevailing, you know, why would they believe the way we believe in the west when they’re in the east?

[02:29:07] You know, geographical locations have everything to do with what you’re first exposed to. And, um, people over here, the arrogance of American Christianity is that anybody who doesn’t think the way they do here, they think is wrong. And it’s hypocritical since the Bible that they come from, came from the middle east.

[02:29:26] Anyway, the Bible that they’re using the judge to the people is not even an American test. So, um, but I think it’s very, open-minded. And, and, and, and what, and what we’re saying is no matter where you’re from in the world, whatever you’re born into, or around, still do an objective search and see what’s appealing to you for you, not necessarily what your parents did or what is native to your culture, you know, whatever it may be, you know, search, you know, do an independent search for yourself in see what you come up with.

[02:29:59] And that will, you’ll be [02:30:00] set free from the expectation of man. And, um,

[02:30:07] and so if somebody, um, th w was there anything you wanted to say on that part? 

[02:30:17] Branch: Well, you hit it on the head, you know, where people are born and grow up and their community and their family and whatever that particular religious or faith belief system is. That’s what they’re going to be born into and educated into, at least initially now with the internet and media, what it is.

[02:30:39] There’s no one in the world who. Is unable to be exposed to any of these thoughts or these systems of belief. So that sort of an excuse is taken out of them out of the picture here, because we have the gospel being spread worldwide. Um, all of those [02:31:00] masters, pardon me were masters and they were called to share the truth.

[02:31:06] There’s no way a single religion, you know, throughout history could make its way around the world and, and be part of people’s lives like it can today. So those people, those people, all, um, we’re trying to share the word of God and the truth of God. Um, we live in a whole different situation today.

[02:31:30] De’Vannon: Was there anything that you had to say about Jesus and

[02:31:32] the other masters? 

[02:31:36] Branch: Well, All of the masters were trying to, um, teach. Their followers. And I think all of the masters, um, had the word of God, uh, were enlightened by the word of God. And we’re directed to share the word of God, you know, with a variety of people.

[02:31:56] This is how religions got started and got worldwide. [02:32:00] Um, they all took some divergent. Um, paths. The one thing that is different between all the religions is the place and purpose and presence of Jesus as the Christ. And now today because of our advanced technology and the internet and zoom and all of these kinds of, um, Technical capabilities we have the entire world has the opportunity to learn more and to make choices about what faith system or religion or spiritual path they might choose to be part of and believe in.

[02:32:46] De’Vannon: No, it’s good to have options, 

[02:32:50] Branch: always, always. 

[02:32:52] De’Vannon: And so. I’m going to still read a quote from John Dawn. It said, uh, that you have in here is that [02:33:00] no, man is an island, is that we are not here alone. We do not live isolated and alone, and we cannot exist alone. Even Jesus, the most alien isolated in different man of all time.

[02:33:12] I was never alone. And I’ll throw in there with the exception of his trips, to, for the amount of olives and things to get away and pray. Um, you know, he was connected to family, friends, followers, even foes, but always to God is eternal and heavenly father into the holy spirit. So, you know, we were designed to have community to connect with each other and with the Lord and, um, You know, if anybody out there ever does decide to take the path of Christ, maybe live somewhere where you don’t have churches, maybe you choose not to attend them.

[02:33:52] I don’t believe church is a necessary for relationship with God only God is necessary for a relationship with God and Jesus, because you [02:34:00] go to God through Jesus. And so if you’re there, you know, if you want to access. You know, Christ traditionally in churches, they will lead you through what they call like a center’s prayer.

[02:34:10] And it’s more about making a proclamation of faith. You know, if you believe in the son of God, as we stated in the interview, that is how you get into heaven. That’s how you begin to develop in God. And you can just say that by yourself, you don’t have to have a preacher lead you in a prayer or anything like that.

[02:34:27] And it can be super simple as like, Lord, you know, I want to get to know you, please forgive me if my sins and anything that I’ve done wrong in healing. To be that, which you would have me to be in Jesus’ name, amen, or something along those lines. And so just to be real and genuine, you’re like, God, I’m this way.

[02:34:47] I know I’m I know I’m not right. Please make me. Right. You know, and then he’ll take it from there. And, um, so I’ll give you the last word. Um, Mr. ECLA anything you want [02:35:00] to say on that quote? I just read or that what I was just saying about what some, what some called the center’s prayer and any final advice you have for, for, for my audience 

[02:35:12] Branch: Havana.

[02:35:13] Thanks about a year. It was, it was great. Um, the Lord’s ready when you’re ready. He’ll never turn his back on you. Even when we stumble and fall, he’s, he’s still there waiting to pick us up and help us back on the path. Um, take a few minutes, learn as much as you can find the path that works for you, but get spiritually grounded and start a relationship with something bigger and more generous and gracious outside of your.

[02:35:49] Wonderful. And, um, I was gonna say you, um, you’ve published 2 22 books that you’ve written, uh, you have a YouTube channel. Uh you’re on [02:36:00] Facebook, LinkedIn, and I’ll I’ll, we can really find a lot of this information on your website and that’s, uh, Manoj O publishing.com. And I’m going to put all of this in the show notes and everything like that, so that people.

[02:36:15] De’Vannon: I can look you up because you have an immense amount of, of work that you’ve done and are still doing. And, um, so excellent. Thank you so much for that, for that final word. And it was a joint, a pleasure to have you on the show today, 

[02:36:34] Branch: the Nevada. Thank you, buddy. I really appreciate your time and, uh, my best all of your listeners and keep listening to, and he’s, he’s trying to make it happen for you.

[02:36:45] De’Vannon: Thank you all so much for taking time to listen to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast. It really means everything to me. Look, if you love the show, you can find more information and resources at sex, drugs, and [02:37:00] jesus.com or wherever you listen to your podcast. Feel free to reach out to me directly@  devannon@sexdrugsandjesus.com and on Twitter and Facebook as well.

[02:37:10] My name is De’Vannon and it’s been wonderful being your host today and just remember that everything is going to be all right.




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