Episode #31: Fake Orgasms, Avoiding Sales Traps, Surviving Cancer & the Spirit of a Hustler with Biz Coach Heather Wylde


Heather Wylde Smith is a native of North Georgia, raised in the birthplace of NASCAR and the Moonshine Capital of the World. She jokes that she’s a highly evolved Redneck/Hillbilly.


Although she has a Tragedy Resume a mile long, she is living proof that our pasts only define us — if we let them. She often says:


“Therapy kept me from jumping off a building. Personal Growth made me stop wanting to jump off a building.”


Through relentless pursuit of health and happiness, she has overcome: 

•  Stage 3 Breast Cancer

•  Mental/Emotional/Sexual Abuse and Trauma

•  Drug Addiction

•  And more!


Her tremendous success with personal growth lead her to become a coach. She received her initial coaching training through Coach U in 2009.

Today, she is the CEO and mad genius behind Wylde Coach LLC. 


She’s a Biz Coach for ambitious purpose-driven coaches, healers and service providers who want to expand into their next-level selves in order to attract dreamier clients, raise their prices & restructure their businesses for maximum impact, profit and fulfillment.


She’s available as a Guest Speaker/Expert and for Podcast interviews. Her blend of biz expertise, practical tips and outlandish humor make her a dynamic guest that your audience will eat up with a spoon!


INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to):

·      Fake orgasms!!!

·      Cum

·      Insider look at the escorting industry 

·      Warning Signs of Scandalous Sales-hoes

·      Shitty employers

·      The Spirit of a Hustler

·      Republican bullshit

·      Surviving cancer

·      Surviving abuse

·      What would Jesus really do?




Website: www.HeatherWylde.com

Linktree: https://linktr.ee/HeatherWyldeCoach

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HeatherWyldeEthicalSales/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/heatherwyldecoach/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/WyldeRomance

LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3pwrmAN

YouTube: https://bit.ly/3JrNO6c




Website: https://www.SexDrugsAndJesus.com

YouTube: https://bit.ly/3daTqCM

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SexDrugsAndJesus/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sexdrugsandjesuspodcast/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/TabooTopix

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devannon

Email: DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com



·      Choose Your Struggle Podcast & Coaching with Jay Shifman



·      Pray Away Documentary (NETFLIX)


TRAILER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_CqGVfxEs



·      PodMatch is awesome! This application streamlines the process of finding guests for your show and also helps you find shows to be a guest on. The PodMatch Community is a part of this and that is where you can ask questions and get help from an entire network of people so that you save both money and time on your podcasting journey.





De’Vannon: You’re listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to! And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right. At the end of the day, my name is De’Vannon and I’ll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world. As we dig into topics that are too risqué for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what’s really going on in your.

There is nothing on the table and we’ve got a lot to talk about. So let’s dive right into this episode.

De’Vannon: Happy new years, Eve, Eve, everyone. Thank you so much for tuning in for the final show of the year it has been a phenomenal year. And I want to thank you for your kindness and for your support for your love. And I send that all right back to you. Here’s to a fantastic 2022 

Today, I’m going to be talking with a Bad Bitch by the name of Heather Wylde y’all. This woman is a transformational business and life coach. [00:01:00] But before that she was a hooker, she was raped. She was a college dropout and she was a drug addict amongst several other things, which we will talk about in the show.

This woman is living proof that your trauma in your past doesn’t have to be what defines you today. And in this episode, we’re going to talk about fake orgasms cum, your going to get an insider look at the escorting industry. We’re going to talk about some bullshit ass employers and we, you know, what would Jesus really do about several things that are going on in this world?

And we hit on this and a lot of other things, I hope you enjoy this episode. And I look forward to seeing you in the new year.

 Hi, baby. Thank you So much, Heather, for coming on the sex drugs and Jesus pod, hallelujah, tabernacle and praise. And my bitches, y’all been here up [00:02:00] in here all a bit here. The Heather, I’m looking forward to this time that we’re about to spend together. We’re two beautiful women from perverted backgrounds who are incredibly productive individuals trying to share some shit with society so that they can help their own assets to improve and get better or tell a bitch that they know. And we’re going to talk about how you’re a great coach and the, the crazy things you’ve been through surviving cancer and beating an addiction and being an escort coming about of that life. You know, Not to mention all the beautiful heels that you were in. We’re going to talk about all the value that you have to add to society and especially entrepreneurs and people who are trying to take what they do to that next level.

And you do it in a very unique way, but before we get into all of that productive, , productive shit about you, girl. I want to talk about these fake orgasms. I heard it through the great [00:03:00] vine. I heard it all the way through the great vine two and fail into five. And I, I want to know what, where did you start using fake orgasms?

Where did this come from?

Heather: So I don’t advocate using February. People, people need to know when they’re doing well and when they’re not. And it’s really sad when you meet somebody who thinks they’re way better in bed than they because a bunch of people have faked it. Right. But you’re an escort, knowing how to fake a realistic, fake orgasm is really a good skill to have.

 Because sometimes your agency’s wound up your phone and they need you to get the fuck out of wherever you are and go see somebody else. Or sometimes you just find somebody who has got a lot of stamina and you’re just fucking over it and you need them to come. So you do big orgasm to like encourage male orgasm.

 So yeah, so when I was [00:04:00] on Jay’s podcast, that’s how we met Jay Schiffman introduced us. We were, I was talking about. Funny stories from my escorting life. And one of them involved me faking orgasms. So I gave a little quick tutorial about what not to do and what to do. Do you want, you want a demonstration?

De’Vannon: Yeah. And I bought, I bought a props has set today, which is one of my, this is one of my home grown cucumbers. We began our fall harvest of this is just the first round. They get much bigger than this. And actually my boyfriend and I are going to be inserting this into my assholes at night. And that’s the one that’s the Y here in my bedroom, where, where recording from, because I bought this in case we need some inspiration .

Heather: [00:05:00] over the top. My favorite, one of my favorite quotes from this sex education book I read was learning to.

By watching more is like learning to drive by watching chases. Like cartoons are fun to watch, but you don’t want to learn from them way on the watch. It’s not necessarily educational, so she’s a little bit more understated. So it’s just like,

De’Vannon: Okay. Well, fortunately in the gay world, we, I mean, there’s no really faking needed. It’s not like we can, if there ain’t nothing coming out the tip of [00:06:00] your Dick, well, then you didn’t come in as dollars to it.


Heather: there’s, there’s no escorts that learn how to fake orgasms, because if they come too much, you know, it’s harder for them to get them up, get it up on the next client. So it’s something that’s done. Just probably not by normal society.

De’Vannon: I could feel that. 

 I can see where we’re a male escort. We need to fake an orgasm in order to make that money. Know but you know, me, I’m such a cum whore. They burn that faith with me. If you’re going to stick your Dick in me, better feel this asshole of what that good baby gravy, because that’s what I’m in it for. 

Heather: I I’m not, I’m not comfortable, but I don’tcum calm. I have a limit, like if there’s too much calm, it freaks me out. But I dated, and I actually had a couple of clients like this too, but it, but I dated a guy if calm got on him at all, he freaked out and I’m sure it’s, I’m sure it’s a trauma [00:07:00] thing. Tom or like yours. 

either one.

Yeah, Nope.

De’Vannon: Well, I hope that he gets healed of that In the name of Jesus. 

Heather: In the name of Jesus. Yeah. Like you have sex. And he was like jumping up immediately to like clean off. And like I said, it’s probably a trauma response. Yeah. And you know, I ran across men that don’t like blow jobs. It happens.

De’Vannon: He just likes to get it right to the point. I don’t blame him. You know, can’t judge him for that. Not at all. So what made, explain to us exactly what sort of coach you are. You have a very cute website which all that’s going to be in the show, and that was in everything like that. But in your own words, tell us what sort of coach you are and what your target market is.

Heather: So I am all about helping people that are [00:08:00] mission-based coaches, healers, or service providers. Like in other words, not just in this to make a lot of money. They’re actually in this because as a part of their higher purpose, they’re really here to serve people to really be a change, an agent of change for positive change in the world.

And the problem with those of us that are really mission-based is that you come into the online world, you pretty quickly figured that you’ve grouped pretty quickly figured out that you can’t do it on your own. That there’s, there’s just too much to know to try to do it on your own. So you start investing in most of the ways that are taught about marketing and sales in the online world.

Some really sleazy elements to it. I call it sociopathic sales. You know, where people are being very pushy and manipulative and the way they’re selling. There’s a lot of really hype-y and manipulative marketing. And my is I help people that are mission-based to learn to market and sell in a way that feels really good to them, but it, and, and that is also effective and gets their mission out there and gives them the money to lead like really interesting [00:09:00] lives.

 goal in life is to live in a McMansion and you know, drive a Mercedes and know, have a Louis Vuitton purse, you’re probably not my client. I w I like working with the people who have kind of a quirkier and more collectic, you know, dreams of like traveling around the world to visit caves or, or, you know, living, living like luxury off grid or something like that.

 But yeah, it’s, I’m, I’m for the people that really want to know how to sell a market in a way that don’t feel like they’re selling.

De’Vannon: Okay. I want you to speak more to the whole selling.

your soul because that’s the recurring theme throughout your website ethics, integrity, and, and you, you did touch on it, but can you give me a specific example or examples of some sort of treachery that you saw? So, you know, we could be on the lookout for it.

What did you see that, that makes us such a repetitive theme for [00:10:00] you? 

Heather: Yeah, happy to. And I’m actually writing my first book. It’s going to be out in January and it’s, it’s about how to spot the predators and scammers online so that you can make good investments that actually grow your business. So what happened with me is that I kept investing in these big, good programs.

And one of the things I didn’t know was that it’s a, it’s a group program and they’re aiming all their marketing at new entrepreneurs. People who are, are newer to the business, they might not even know their niche yet. They’re probably not making sales and use testimonials and say, you know, this person went through my program and they’ve doubled their ROI, their return on investment in the first month.

Well, what they don’t tell you is that that person was actually a one-to-one. And that person already had 4,000 Facebook connections and was already making sales of 2000 plus a month. for that person who already has a somewhat established business, it’s nothing for them to double their ROI. I mean, it’s impressive, you know, but it’s a lot easier to do that now for somebody who’s brand new and they barely know their niche, or they don’t know their niche [00:11:00] yet that’s not going to happen.

And so they’re using these very, I call it toxic testimonials, these very misleading testimonials to market, to people. So that that’s something that’s very common. One of the most obnoxious things that I directly experienced is this course that taught you to sell with a sales script. And which, you know, that’s kinda common.

 I don’t really advocate scripts, but you know, they’re not in themselves in and of themselves toxic. Well, this one, they wanted you to use it for word, for word, because it was written in NLP, which is neuro-linguistic programming. It’s a form of hypnosis. So you’re hypnotizing people without their permission.

And then pitching to, for them to send thousands of dollars at the end of that call, I did not find that at the bowl. And when I, you know, raised as an issue, I was like, yeah, I just don’t quite feel comfortable with this. I was told that it was my success mindset. I needed to go work on my success mindset, that it wasn’t unethical that it was my own problem.

And that’s a very big thing in the coaching [00:12:00] industry is, you know, you go through somebody’s program. If it doesn’t work they’ll tell you, it’s your mindset, that’s the problem. And it’s like, if you showed up and you did everything they told her to do, and it didn’t work, it’s not a mindset issue. That’s the program sucked, you know, but a lot of this, there’s just, there’s a lot of sleazy stuff.

There’s a lot of really great people that are in this for the right reasons that are doing amazing things and personal growth saved my life therapy kept me from jumping off. Personal growth made it so that I didn’t want to jump off buildings anymore. So I know the power of this is my so passionate about it, and it’s why I want to help the people that are in this for the right reasons to get out there and get their work, because I know the power of it.

 But unfortunately there’s a lot of people that are just in it to get paid and there’s nothing wrong with money, nothing wrong with making great money. But you don’t have to be a sleazy asshole in order to do it.

De’Vannon: Hey Manny, many men on a Tuesday evening. NLP is true. The newer neuro-linguistic [00:13:00] programming. Cause you know, I’m certified as a hypnotherapist, you 

Heather: Yeah. 

De’Vannon: so I studied all about that and it’s true. There is a lot of the low key hypnotherapy and all kinds of all kinds of ads for everything you see in churches, out of pulpits, everywhere you go, they’re trying to mind fuck you in.

 That’s why I always preach as important to know why you believe what you believe and be sure that you know where you’re coming from and that it’s not something somebody else put into your head without you being aware of it because the shit can be done real slick. Give me an example, like what would be the name of like a profession or a sort of business cause healers service providers.

And I know that people listening to this, they’re gonna, you know, if you’re speaking to them, they’re gonna know that you’re talking to them, but I’m just a detailed bitch. And I just want to know. 

Heather: No, it’s good. And I actually, I need people to challenge me on this because I’m really good at helping other people do this. But when I get to my own stuff, I’m like, , which is the curse. Like most people, if they’re great copy writer, they can’t write copy for themselves. They’re great. [00:14:00] You know, mindset coach.

They can unbind fuck anybody, but they can’t unwind fuck themselves. So let’s see some examples of people that I’ve worked with. I worked with an amazing Reiki healer and spiritual coach or she worked with me rather. I worked with a, a brilliant young man that is a business coach primarily for LGBTQ plus community.

 I’ve worked with a woman who has her own HR company for she outsourced she’s the outsource HR for small businesses. I’ve worked with a copywriter. There’s some other people yeah, that’s a pretty good, you know, representative, you know, my big thing is. It’s not so much the type of coach or healer that they are.

It’s really just what’s in their heart. You know, are they doing this because they just want to make $10,000 on my God in 30 days, which ain’t, ain’t going to happen no matter how much you see that on Facebook. Or are they in this because, you know, they’ve, they have something that’s been laid on their heart, you [00:15:00] know?

And they’re, they, there’s a soul contract that they’re fulfilling. You know, that they’re out, they’re here to make a difference for people. That’s the people that I work with says is that VR is that mission-based, I will say this. One of the things about me that really sets me apart from other business coaches is that so many business coaches don’t know how to help you find the value and the ROI for your program, unless you’re a business coach or a money coach.

Right. I am brilliant at helping people turn their intangible results. Your happiness coach, you make people happy and it’s like, okay, well, how do I explain the value of that? I’m really good at taking that intangible and showing you how fucking valuable it is, and actually turning it into a dollar amount that you can even, you can talk to your, your potential clients about cause one of the most common sales objections is I can’t afford it.

Well, if you can show somebody how much money is costing them being unhappy, it’s going to make your program look like a deal. Right? So I’m really good at working with non-business coaches. Although I have coached and business coaches,[00:16:00]

De’Vannon: Okay. Excellent. sounds totally kick ass. So you, you talk about on there, how now people can attract and sign their dream clients. You talk about this on your website, which is beautiful. And I’ve said that a thousand times, I’m sure I’ll say it again. pretty in pink and it’s not overly pink.

Cause it’s like just right in very, very Olivia Newton, John grease, 

Heather: Ooh. 

De’Vannon: to me. And so, but you’re talking about damaging and karma. So, so this is speaking to the bad business practice. So, so can we take a moment because maybe some people who are doing bad business practices might not be aware of how it’s actually hurting them, which you have any advice for such people who are more on the predatory side of things, but don’t see it that way. 

Heather: Well, I think a lot of people, you know, of when I learned that in LP sprint, I didn’t feel like it was right, but I had, [00:17:00] you have to have a beginner’s mindset, you know, you can’t go into everything thinking that, you know something right. Otherwise you’re not going to learn. Right. So it’s a fine line.

Holding onto what you know, you know, and then being, but also being too stubborn to learn. Do you get what I’m saying? You kind of have to, you have to walk that line. Right? So with that, I tried it for a while and because it didn’t feel aligned for me before, because it felt really gross to me. I didn’t really make many sales.

I did make a few sales, but then I was always like, did they really want to work with me? Or did I mind coming to working with me? And that didn’t feel good. A lot of it is, you know, people will pay thousands of dollars to work with a mentor and that mentor will really influenced them and just be like, no, you know, this is the only way your business is going to get started.

Or they’ll, you see a lot of this rationalizing of, know, this person needs your program. So it’s okay for you to bully them into buying them, buying from you because it’s for your own, for their own good. So you see a lot of this rationalization, right? So people really like go with your gut and if it doesn’t feel right to you, then it doesn’t [00:18:00] feel right to you.

One of the biggest things is you’ll see people that are still doing this cold pitching, you know, where they’ll come into the DMS on Facebook or, or Instagram, wherever. And they haven’t even said hello to you, but they’re like, I’ve got this great product or this program, but it’s going to be perfect for you.

And you’re like, fuck you, you, you haven’t even said, hello, you’ve known nothing about me. And you know that they’re just sending out hundreds of those messages a day. A lot of times they’ve paid thousands of dollars to learn this technique from somebody who swears that it’s the only way for them to do business.

So most of the time I keep my cool about it. It depends on how they come at me. I have gotten kind of nasty with people that but yeah, I mean that it, if you do that, People there’s going to be a lot of people that are going to be turned off. Another thing people will do this really underhanded that a lot of people teach you to do they say, get people on a coffee, chat, get them on a networking call.

And then when you get on the call with [00:19:00] them, you try to turn it into a sales call. And it’s, it’s a, it’s a pet peeve. People fucking hate it. And what that tells me if you’re doing that is that you don’t have the strength of conviction about what you do and how good you are at it and the product or the service that you’re offering.

Because if you did have that strength and conviction and that competence, then you would approach me and say, you know, Hey Heather, I’ve got this thing. I think it would be really good for you. Let’s let’s have a consultation about it, you know, but you’re trying to sneak the call on me like that. Just reeks of desperation.

De’Vannon: Oh sneaky, like. 

Heather: It’s just, it’s gross. It’s just gross. You know? No, don’t do it. 

De’Vannon: don’t do it.

People don’t do it because it only hurt yourself. You get back what you send out and if you send out deception and everything like that, well, you know, you will have your day and that’s not something that I wish upon you. You know, I’ve done bad shit in my day. It’s come back to bite me in the [00:20:00] ass, you know Just cause it’s cloaked in pretty poor for clothes.

Does it make it great. So we gotta really be careful of what we into.

Heather: Just because it’s legal doesn’t mean that it’s clean. I know when I went to real estate, And I got my real estate license and the first broker I went to talk to, he was such a good salesperson. He made me high. Have you ever talked to somebody that was such a good salesperson that you already felt high after talking to them?

So this guy was just like, and I got home and I was telling my boyfriend about it at the time. And I was like, ah, this and this and this. And as I was saying it, I was like, wait a minute. That’s not good. But the way he put it, the way he mind fucked me with it, you know, it took it, me saying it out loud and talking to somebody else to be like, wait a minute.

That’s not in my best interest. And I thought about it and I was like, he’s a pimp, he’s a fucking pimp. I’m like, if I’m going to have a pimp, I’ll stay doing what I’m doing. You know, I’m not going to go into real estate and fuck.[00:21:00]

De’Vannon: Oh, my God, you know, that reminds me, this might be a little shady, but I don’t care. I’m going to say this, this, this, this new business model that I’ve seen popping up where you will have somebody who oh my God. Say they don’t actually, for instance, know how to garden or some shit like that. they’ll go and find the whole bunch of people who can establish.

The infrastructure around it and get clients and say, I want to hire a gardener within the person who doesn’t know how to garden, who owns the business. We’ll charge the customer a hundred dollars for the gardener and then pay the gardener like 10, you know, and you see this in all kinds of industries.

And they’re like, well, I don’t have to know what I’m doing to make money. I’m just hire people who do know what they’re doing. Okay. I can, I can meet you half way on that. As long as you’re splitting the money, 50 50, because without them, you wouldn’t have anything. And if they got, got [00:22:00]more courage and had a more entrepreneurial spirit, then they would need your ass to begin with you don’t have the skill do the job.

You’re just pimping people out. And that’s something I see a lot and I’m all like, I wouldn’t do the job for $20. And then this bitch is making 80 off of me with each client now,

Heather: And this is how this backfires on you. So before I got full-time into coaching, I was a limo driver there was a guy that I met, like limo driving is so much like It’s hilarious. So I met this dude through a company we both worked for, he had his own little company and I would go and I would do runs for him, but he was cheap.

He was so fucking cheap. And his, his clients, his really good clients, he had, he had been in another driver and it was an older gentleman and the older gentlemen fucked up all the time. Not because he was older, he just, he just fucked up all the time. Like he just didn’t, you know, but he was only getting paid like $30 a ride.

Right. And [00:23:00] I was making the guy pay me a little bit more and I was really good with his clients. Well, his clients. The, the guys, the guys named George, they were like, no, you can’t send me George anymore. Like, we’ll take Heather. If you’re not available, we’ll take Heather. But we’re like, we’re not doing it.

I stopped doing a lot of rides from him because I got, I got other, you know, better sources of, of of trips. he was like, I don’t understand why you, you know, come work with me. And I’m like, because you don’t patient. And that’s why the only person who ever sticks around for you is this one guy.

But he’s a fuck up. Like if you pay people better, the better people would stick around and your life would be a lot easier. But because you’re trying to be cheap, your customers are constantly getting pissed off and you’re having to like retrain and like run after people all the time. I’m like just fucking pay people, a decent wage, right.

It’s not that hard.

De’Vannon: As we’ve seen demonstrated with the pandemic because people working and now you see these signs popping up. McDonald’s $10 an hour, this place 15 an hour. Okay. [00:24:00] You could have been doing that the whole time. now people still are not wanting to go back to work. Those government benefits, you know, are being cut off or have been cut off, but people still are not returning to those old jobs because they had like a whole epiphany, a spiritual awakening and everything like that.

And it’s too late for the employers who have been paying their CEOs and managers. the money they’ve had people setting their on the ground on food stamps and stuff like that who couldn’t even afford to feed their babies. But to them, managers are making six figures. used to be Multiple six figures.

right. People, people don’t know that I was employment counselor in Texas for the Texas workforce commission for a while, and would hire for the service industry.

Shit. I mean, you could manage a fast food restaurant and make upwards of 90,000 to start it. Meanwhile, the person there was making minimum wage, the fry cook [00:25:00]

Heather: Yup. 

De’Vannon: looked then, and that’s not talking about the bonuses and everything, you know, by the time it’s all said and done there, they fucking lot of money in, in the things that Americans really like to consume.

Bullshit my opinion, but treating the workers so bad, like that is, is one thing that I love about the pandemic. Cause it all came out. People really their life and they told their employers to go fuck themselves. And they’re not going back to that abuse, no matter how much money they’re offered.

Heather: and it is, it is abusive. And, you know, it’s all the worst when you’re like, you’re struggling at home because you can’t pay your bills. And, you know, for the people who are parents, you know, I think a lot. And like my, my, my, my dad got help him is, is a Trump fan. And he’s like, I don’t understand where, you know, I don’t understand why these people just won’t go to work.

And I’m like, well, a lot of them, if they go back to work, then they’ve got to pay for childcare and you can’t pay. At least, if they’re sitting at home getting a government check, they’re actually can do something with that money other than just give it to childcare. You [00:26:00] know, I’m like there’s extenuating factors.

It’s not that people are lazy. It’s just, they’re sick of the abuse. They’re sick of the bullshit. And you know, living is expensive and if you, you know, bust your ass at a minimum wage job, you still won’t be able to make ends meet. Like it’s ridiculous.

De’Vannon: But things are changing and they’re changing for the better. 

So. Speaking into keeping it with the spirit of working. You’ve had a lot of jobs. I was when I was researching you. see you worked at Wendy’s. I worked at Wendy’s I ate up all that shit. And McDonald’s you did Walmart Kroger clothing store. I was a bartender. So you were a bartender, you’re a stripper.

I took some pole dancing classes. Once a limo driver comes to the heirs, your apartment leasing agent and an Uber Lyft driver, you know, very seldom do I meet somebody who’s had just about as many jobs as I have had. [00:27:00] You know, I, you know, I’ve worked every fucking were under the sun, so I want you to speak to a, to include raising canes.

Wendy’s I’ve worked in the mall and been a model, a model for mall stores. Like company, I’ve been a janitor food delivery drivers, several different restaurants, a drug dealer, selling everything under the sun, a massage therapist, podcast hose off there. So I want you to speak to this, to the spirit of a hustler you know, and how that is not how that is a great attitude to have that grind and how that ties into your coaching. 

Heather: Okay. So I love the term hustler, the way that your high school track coach talked about it, like get out there and hustle, 

De’Vannon: Right. 

Heather: get out there, give it your, give it your all you know, do the damn thing. Right. And, and, and be, be about it. Like my favorite. I love this pimp isms. My favorite pimp ism is don’t talk about it.

Be about it. Don’t sit around talking [00:28:00] about all the shit you’re going to do and go fucking make it happen. Right. So that kind of hustle I’m with the team hustle till you drop team, you know, no hashtag no sleep and all that bullshit. I’m not with that level of hustle. Like that’s, that’s crazy. But the spirit of hustle to me is like, if you don’t like, what’s going on, fucking change it don’t sit around bitching about it.

Don’t you know, you go change it. If you don’t like this fucking. This is my rule. Like somebody can bitch to me about a job. They don’t like as long as they are actively doing something to change the situation. And that’s not just about jobs, it’s it’s anything. Right. But people that just want to bitch and bitch and bitch, like no is interesting.

A friend of mine recently quit a job after two months, she thought it was going to be great. She moved to a different state for it shows me amazing. She got in there, the management was shit. It was a nightmare. And so she chose to leave after a couple of months. Well, another mutual friend of ours was like she was like, yeah, I don’t, I don’t understand why she changes jobs so often, [00:29:00] but this is, you know, she’s somebody that she will stay in a job.

She doesn’t like, and there’s, there’s those of us that will put up with that. And there’s those of us that are like, I don’t care about fuck what this looks on my like on my resume, I will lie on the next resume if I have to, I’m getting the fuck on, you know, and, and that’s, that’s how I’ve always been.

Like, I’m, I’m a good employee for the first, like three days. Until I start to see the holes in the policies and procedures. And I started to see how it can be done better. Not that I know of ever know everything, you know, but there’s just some things that like, I don’t know, it just, there’s just so much stupidity as you know, and, and they won’t listen, you know, there’s just, most people will show up to a job just to get a paycheck and they have this ability to just kind of put their head down and they know what they’re being told to do is retarded, but they keep doing it anyway because that’s what they were told to do.

And they just want to get their paycheck and they don’t give a fuck. I don’t have that switch. I can’t turn that off. Like, I don’t mind being told what to do as long as it makes sense, but if it’s fucking stupid or if I feel like you’re not treating me [00:30:00] correctly, or you’re not treating my coworkers correctly or not treating the customers correctly, out, you know, what, what is that kind of, it’s the spirit of why you quit your jobs and moved on to other things.

De’Vannon: Yeah.

because it was just, it wasn’t who I really was, you know, was isn’t really at the core of it. I think a lot of people stay on jobs and they, and they really killing their soul because they, it’s not really their life purpose or calling these I probably was only ever truly happy when I was a military recruiter.

And then when I was a recruiter for the Texas workforce commission, because those two jobs involved with mission work ministry in the sense that you’re taking somebody from a less advantageous situation and putting them in a more advantageous situation, which is the heart of everything Jesus spoke about.

So it wasn’t a spiritual jobs specifically, but it [00:31:00] is, it did good work, benefits came to people that 

Heather: Yeah. 

De’Vannon: elevated economic status. And so. Those are the only two jobs that I ever had and maybe working in the mall because I am a fashion diva, but, you know that was like, great. But the supervision sucked ass at both of them.

And I was clashing. I would’ve got kicked out of the military, you know, and everything like that, but, you know but yeah,

you know, but that’s why I, love that about the pandemic is it calls people to face it. 

Heather: Um, 

De’Vannon: not gonna move forward unless they’re actually happy with what they’re doing, 

Heather: yeah, 

De’Vannon: else be damned.

And I commend the world for taking the bold step. Yeah. God at the push push, just out there with the pandemic, hasn’t been all bad, you know, it’s has been terrible, but a lot of good has come from it too. So.

Heather: I, I almost, I agree. I agree. 100% and I think it was almost like a soul conspiracy because I [00:32:00] was, I was limo driving at the time and I was, you know, picking up C-suite executives that they’re on the road. 40 weeks out of the gear. Like, and they, and people think business travel is a vacation. It’s fucking, not people on business travel work anywhere from 12 to 16 or 18 hours a day, not including the travel, like it’s fucking brutal.

And they, I had several clients who were like, almost wish things would shut down just so I could get some rest. And I feel like it’s like, all our souls kind of got together and they’re like, okay, these assholes are not going to stop on their own. We got to do something let’s manifest a pandemic.

De’Vannon: Well, we did well, 

Heather: Well, we did. I mean, we had dolphins and Dennis, I mean, how brilliant are we? You know, like,

De’Vannon: our dolphins around. 

Heather: so yeah, the Venice canals were, were sewers. And I think they still are to some degree sewers and people like the, the decrease in pollution and the decrease in, in what was probably for them, not so much [00:33:00] pollution as decrease in traffic in the canals. They actually saw dolphins in the Venice canal.

Never, I don’t, I don’t know. At another time in history ever been reported.

De’Vannon: Yeah. I heard the in Venice is dis ungodly.

Heather: Yeah. I want to go before it completely sinks, you know, just because it’s the greatest cortisones, the greatest, like most sought after prostitutes in the world came from Venice and like 14th, 15th century. So I got to make a pilgrimage there at one point, but yeah, it stinks. That’s, that’s what I hear those things.

De’Vannon: So I don’t on your website, you have a few mission statements that are really cool. And one of them talks about how you’re not, you’re saying that you’re not out to force change in the world. You’re saying that you’re here to, it says that you’re here to invite people, to see that they have options to create the lives.

They want to lead that they are not chained to the status quo. When I read that, [00:34:00] it reminded me of Jesus. It did. And David I’ll totally take that.

because he said. That if he said referring to himself, that if I be lifted up, I will draw all men onto me, which is not a statement of force. What he w he was telling people who were going to follow him is to simply talk him up and then he will do the rest.

And so my ministry, and the way that.

I approached the world is the same way. I’m not trying to force anybody to believe one way or the other, but I am provoking spiritual conversation, least we abandoned a very important part of ourselves. And I don’t give a damn if somebody wants to go be a Buddhist, I love hanging out with them.

Other ball, people who love vegetarian food. Great. Oh, if they wanted to be a towel is or whatever, it’s just about having some sort of conscious, conscious spirituality about you, whatever that may be. And but it’s not forced, you know, I like to throw [00:35:00] information shows out there, write my blogs, write my books if it’s for you, it’s for you.

It’s not as not, I don’t care if you suck Satan’s Dick, we can still go have my Moses on Sunday. That’s great. You know, at least you have a fucking perspective, you know, spiritually. And and, and I, and I thought that that statement was so humble of you. And then I think about like Republicans, know, making say like laws in Texas try to force the women to live the way they think that they should. And And I want you to talk about this because you, you have a statement on your website that you want shaved like half of your head off because your parents were trying to force you to go to church. And so I want you to talk about why you did that, what happened and tie that into everything I just said about how Jesus was not forceful how, when people try to become forceful, they’re actually stepping out of the will of Christ. [00:36:00]

Heather: Okay. So I don’t know if I can hit on everything. I, I love it. One of the things that people don’t realize about Jesus is that he was not trying to start a new religion. Not really. He didn’t look from Christian came about later. He was trying to my words are failing me today. Re re re repurpose the Jewish faith.

Right. And I think very much was about this is a term that they talk about a lot in recovery is attraction rather than promotion. Right. And that had, you know, when you try to show your views in somebody’s face, you’re going, all they’re going to do is dig their heels in. Right. So this is why. When I, when I had cancer, I didn’t say I was fighting cancer, but people would say, oh, you know, you’re fighting cancer.

You’re going to win. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, anything fight fights back. I am politely asking cancer to leave my body. That was my perspective. Right. And you know, you think about it, like what is more likely to get [00:37:00] you curious about another way of life or another perspective, seeing somebody else living from that perspective or that different way of life, somebody coming to you and telling you you’re wrong for doing it the way you’re doing it, and you should be doing it their way.

It doesn’t work. Right. And that’s part of the problem. Our culture today is everybody is so fucking polarized. And I’m just like, if we could get the people on the far ends of the extremes of both quote unquote sides, and I’m like, there are no fucking sides, we’re fucking Americans, right? if we get the people screaming loudest on both sides to shut the fuck up, the rest of us could figure it out.

the people on the they had no interest in finding a solution. They want more book deals. They want more people on their YouTube channel. These people have a vested interest in keeping the chaos and the bullshit going because it’s, it’s lining their pockets. And I think half the times they don’t even believe what they’re saying, but they just know that if, Hey, if I say this, I’m going to get more hits on my Facebook page or on my YouTube or, [00:38:00] you know, whatever.

 So as far as my personal experience, so I grew up in a very small. Rural Georgia town. it’s, it’s not that way anymore, but you know, 40 years ago, back in the late seventies, early eighties, it definitely was. And I would go to church and I was always just very aware. And when they preached hellfire and brimstone constantly, I was like, I don’t know what I did that.

I guess I’m going to hell. You know, I was like, I’m not like, what could I possibly have done? But this, this very learned, man, supposedly is assuring me that I’m going to hell. And that I’m a worthless center. And I was like, oh,

and so I didn’t enjoy it very much. And I, and I tried very hard. When I was 12 or 13, I tried very hard to become a good Christian and I’m a cheerleader. And with the whole thing I had to hire higher the hair closer to God, like clog going on with my hair and everything. And I was. [00:39:00] And after that, I was like, fuck it.

I was like, I’m just gonna, you know, be who I am. And I actually started reading about paganism, which actually honors females and, and the small town that I was in. Not only was it hellfire and brimstone, but it was like, you’re a sinner. You’re always going to be a sinner. You’re nothing but a center in the eyes of God.

If you’re a woman that goes double, if you’re gay, you need to die. That was basically the order of it’s like, you’re all shit. But if you’re these part of these groups, you’re super shit. So I was like super, super shit because I was a female and I was bisexual. And I hated it, you know? And so I would sleep late.

I would do all these things to try to avoid church. And my parents wanted me to go to church. That’s what you do. And I really wanted to shave my head. I really liked that it was a skater cut, you know, and I just thought it looked really cool to have like partial part of your haircut. And so I wanted to do it anyway, but I had asked my parents like a good kid, if I could do it.

And they’re like, no, but I knew that if I did it, they wouldn’t make me go to church because they would be ashamed of me. And [00:40:00] so when, you know, but I wasn’t being that defiant yet. But the final straw was we went to this, one of the more Backwoods, small churches in the area and probably like one step above snake handlers.

And the preacher actually had the audacity to say that women had no place in church. And in my mind I was like, fuck it. I don’t want to be here anyway. Like, I don’t have a problem with Jesus. Jesus is amazing. But the Jesus saved me from your fucking followers, like so many of them. Right. And so I shaved my head and my parents sure enough were embarrassed and they did not make me go to church.

So when for Heather.

De’Vannon: You know what it is, what it is. You gotta do what you gotta do. 

Heather: Yeah.


De’Vannon: another one of your, I’ll say mantras is the UL. You want to show folks, but checkered past you know, it was possible to recover. And you know, to, to basically [00:41:00] thrive after you’ve been broken down. So we won’t get deep into your history here.

 Drug addiction. You mentioned cancer before on your site talks about mental, emotional sex abuse trauma. So this is the part of the show where we want to get into all of the darkness that has plagued you go. 

Heather: So bare yourself, just, you know, no, no. 

no. I’m happy to do it. I’m happy. It’s, it’s one of my, it’s one of my gifts that I’m very comfortable, you know, talking about stuff. So from a very young age, I knew that I didn’t belong where I was. I was, I was very confused. The, you know, my parents and my families and my town’s beliefs did not mesh with mine.

 If you if anybody cares to remember in the, sometime in the eighties, I forget exactly when there were two, two marches, two civil rights marches on my town because there was red lining going on. They would [00:42:00] show African-American families, houses in the area and act as if they would sell them that the banks would always turn down the loans.

And so my town was all white and you know, my family would tell you they’re not racist. They’re certainly not like cross burners, but they were still racist. They might’ve made no fucking sense to me. I mean, very, very young, like eight years old. This is stupid. This makes no sense. So, you know, stuff like that.

And at a very young age, I knew actually, I didn’t think it was anything wrong with being gay. It was when I was nine. mom was having a conversation with my sister. I have no idea why, but she was like, you know, if a girl starts telling you that you’re pretty, or, you know, trying to like touch you, she’s jumped.

And if you said it out loud, like one would just spring up from the floor.

And so, you know, that put me in the closet and again, you know, going to these churches, like nothing made sense. I was like this, like, I know I could tell, like there was some good stuff in [00:43:00] the Bible, but there was also a lot of fucking nonsense. And I was like, no, no, you know, I, I just, I didn’t have this sense of belonging.

 I had a lot of depression and a lot of anxiety. When I was six or seven, an older neighbor molested me. He was only. 12, you know, so he wasn’t an adult, but that age gap, that, that developmental gap, it, it qualifies as molestation. And that was, that was very confusing. Because I had gone through the good touch, bad touch program at school.

 my mother was a teacher, so I went in and I told her you’re supposed to tell a trusted adult. And she said, that’s normal and just turned around didn’t do anything to stop it. So that fucked me up. Pretty good. Let’s see. Yeah, so just it, you know, so many people that I dated were what I now realize were, were narcissists.

 And just very emotionally manipulative just had no self-esteem. [00:44:00] And the only thing that I, where I derived my self-esteem was my grades and my academic accomplishments and my school’s accomplishments, you know, I was a soccer player. I was I was in drama. I was a co editor of the yearbook, you know, that kind of stuff.

And then also from letting people just dump their problems on me, you know, I was, I was a good listener. Right. And these people, this is where I get my thing about people. Can’t talk to me about something that they’re not actively trying to change because I would just let people go on and on for hours.

And they would be like, oh, Heather, you’re such a good friend. I don’t know what I would do without, you know, it gives such great advice and then they would not take any of it or they’d be have you ever heard the term askhole? 

De’Vannon: Yeah. 

Heather: doesn’t ask. All right. They ask all the time, but they don’t really do anything.

So there was a lot of that. So I took on a lot of people’s problems and you know, I’m, I’m empathic as well. So I was really just storing all this really, really negative. And my home life was like subtly fucked up. Like it wasn’t [00:45:00] like screaming and yelling and like fighting and like drama and cops and all that stuff, you know, and, and all, all to say it could have been worse.

 But there was just a tension in the house. Like my parents didn’t really get along. And so I got out, I’m like, well, this is one of the reasons why I was so focused on my academics is because I knew that come hell or high water. If I got a scholarship, I could get the fuck out of this town. And I really lived in here that like any second people were going to find out really who I was and how much I didn’t belong.

And I was going to be stoned to death. And that was awful, you know, so I pushed myself, I graduated second in my class. I got full scholarships. Got out. Thank you. got out, went to school and I thought once I got out, everything was going to be okay. But what happens a lot of times when. Working so hard to let get away from something.

When you finally get away from it, you get a small reprieve, but then it’s like, your psyche is like, oh, it’s safe now to process all this crap that you push down and you’re run over with it. [00:46:00] Right. So I entered into therapy. Well I started doing psychedelics. Psychedelics are amazing things. But not when you’re depressed and you’re already like off balanced and everything and it put me off more off balance.

 I think the depression and the kind of breakdown were coming anyway. But I got into therapy and I was in therapy for about three months when I just, I woke up one morning. I couldn’t stop thinking about killing myself. And I was like, I was going to be alone that weekend in my dorm because my was going home to see your boyfriend or something.

And I kept having this thing about, like, I was going to hang myself from our loft bed, which I don’t even know if that’s possible, but that’s what kept going through my head. And it scared the shit out of me. I ended up going to a local mental hospital and checking myself in and you know, did they do the intake and everything?

And they’re like, yeah, you should stay here. And I was like, fuck. The funny thing with that though it was a Friday night, so I had to stay on suicide ward all weekend before they can really evaluate me on Monday [00:47:00] morning and I was pissed and I was like, look, if I wanted to kill myself, I would have stayed at home and done it for free.

Give me my fucking belt. I wanted to kill myself. I would have done it at home. The other really funny thing, or kind of fucked up thing it was movie night. Like Friday night was movie night and they’re like, yeah, we know we’re going to watch a movie in a little while. We’re going to watch Thelma and Louise.

And I was like so I go to the office and I was like, you know, they kill themselves at the end. Right.

It was suicide ward. I was like so that, you know, that got me into, I got me on psych meds, which I hated, but I took and you know, continued in therapy and therapy again, it kept me from jumping off a building was a good like release. It was a safe place for me to talk, but there wasn’t enough challenging me to actually change and do something about it.

 And then from there, [00:48:00] after my second year of college, my family went fucking crazy. Like went like Jerry Springer, fucking crazy. And I don’t even want to get, it was so bad. I don’t even want to give any examples. Like it was just fucking nuts. And, you know, I had always been curious about sex work, but I was like, I come from a good family.

I come from a good family. I can’t go do that. I’m smart. I can’t go do that. And my family went just really fucking crazy, I was like, you know what, I really don’t. I didn’t do it to hurt them, but I was like, I don’t really care what they think anymore. I’m going to go have this adventure. that’s when I got into sex work.

 comments, questions, concerns point?

De’Vannon: No, not at all. Everything is isn’t going wonderfully. I’m waiting for you to get to the drugs, man. 

Heather: Oh, the drugs man. Okay. So so, you know, because I was already doing psychedelics like once a month I moved out to Hawaii briefly. I had married a friend of [00:49:00] mine from high school. He was in the military and he couldn’t live off base. Who’s gay. He couldn’t live off base unless he advanced to ranks or got married.

And so we got married and it meant that when all this crisis was going on, I got to move to Waikiki. And so while I was there, I. Yeah, I did ecstasy for the first time. All that was there, did asset a couple of times you know, which is fun and amazing, you know, but I wasn’t, it wasn’t fucking up my life at this point.

 When I came back to Atlanta and sort of escorting again, I got around people who were, you know, daily pot smokers, all day pot smokers. I was just smoking a little bit at the end of each night. And then I got around some people, the roll blunts. And once I learned how to roll blunts, it was on and crack.

And so within two years of, within three years of starting to do drugs, I had like an ounce a week pot habit. Like I was smoking like seven blocks a day and I could, I could smoke an entire block by myself and turn around and have a conversation with you. And you wouldn’t even know I was high. Like I was like that kind of fucking druggie.[00:50:00]

And, you know, with escorting. You know, they were frequently drunk. You love, I love to get Coke heads, like, well, it, within a certain range, like people that hadn’t gone too far, so we’ll not be in by too far. Is the people who are like picking through the carpets. Well, once they’re out of Coke, it’s time to go.

That’s just the thing, like they’re picking their carpets. It’s fucking time to go. But the people that they’ve got plenty of blow and they just keep checking the windows and they’ll come back to the bed and they’ll be like, I gotta go close the door and they go close the door. And then after two and they come back to the bed and like two minutes later, they’re like, I got to open the door.

Like that shit is fucking them. Not just people that are just like partying. It’s like babysitting and you can be with them for hours and make shit tons of money. So like, those were great. I was allergic to Coke if I, if I did it, it shut down my nostrils for like a month and it didn’t matter, the cut, whatever.

Like there’s something in it I’m genuinely allergic to. And so I would put it on my gums and stuff, but like, I wasn’t, I never got [00:51:00] addicted to it because of that. You know, smoking a lot of weed, I could never find acid, which is like my favorite thing ever. So I started doing a lot of ecstasy and that’s what I ultimately bottomed out on was ecstasy marijuana.

And the only person I know who hit bottom on hippie drugs. And I wound up in AA for that. And that really pissed me off. I was last person. That was the last place I wanted to be, but actually turned out to be one of the best things that ever happened to me. But one of my funniest drug stories actually happened after I was after I was sober.

So I went to see this client. And this is one of the things, first things that me and De’Vannon of bonded over because the name of his podcast, as you know, is sex, drugs and Jesus. So I went to see this guy and he was smoking crack and I was sober at the time. But you know, you can’t, you can’t get away from crack fumes.

So I had like a second PM, like crack high basically, but this guy [00:52:00] was like, he was sitting in a bed and he was watching, we’re watching like hardcore porn and a lot of men on, on Coke. Can’t no I’m in on Coke. Can’t get it up. So they can’t, they can’t have sex. So he was jerking off for having me jerk him off.

You know, I’m just like sitting there with my loo, just, you know, going and I’m watching this hardcore porn and he’s jerking off and he’s witnessing to me about. Like he’s telling the story and I could never really quite get the gist of it because he was very high, but he was telling this story about, I think, picking up a hitchhiker and witnessing to him about Jesus.

But he’s telling the story, like, while he’s jerking off the hardcore porn with a hooker, I was like, this is fucking weird. But the thing I didn’t tell you about yet De’Vannon was that while I’m sitting there and I mean, I was with this guy for probably three, four hours. And you know, I mean, he was like a middle-class white guy, you know, he wasn’t like the stereotype of what you think [00:53:00] about, you know, crack smoker.

But nonetheless, he was quite high, definitely smoking some crack. And but yeah, we’re sitting there and we’re sitting there and I’m, you know, I’m kind of bored, but I’m making good money and whatever. And but throughout my life, I have had what I describe as thoughts that are so loud that they, that I know they’re not mine.

It’s like a thought comes to me. Okay. Well, that wasn’t me, you know? And it’s, it’s God, it’s God talking to me. I’m not a prophet. I’m not claiming anything like, crazy like that, but I’ve just, I’ve had instances where I’m just like, oh, okay. So I’m sitting there, this guy’s, you know, doing his thing and I get this thought and it was.

Tell him tell this man that you love him. And I was like, no, absolutely not. I don’t know this person. Like there were people that I saw enough that I did actually form emotional attachments to them. I saw them for a long time and I saw them know over the course of years and, and we really hit it off, but this was the first time I’d ever met this person.

And I was like, no, I’m [00:54:00] not doing that. And he would not leave me alone. It just kept pestering me and pestering me and pestering me until finally I was like, how do I do this? And not come across as a crazy person or get this? Cause it’s gotta be a fucking stalker or something. And finally, I like got up on my, like on my, on my knees, on the bed.

I was like kneeling beside him. And I like put my hands on his shoulders and I looked at it and I said, as one child to have a God to another, I want you to know that I love you. And I, it really touched something in him. And you’re talking about how your job. As a recruiter wasn’t ministry, but it was, there were times that I was definitely used by God to deliver a message as an escort.

So there were times that that had a spiritual significance and that was, that was one of them. Six drugs and Jesus, baby.

De’Vannon: There’s no reason for us to, to try to play God in a box. Or a cube or rhombus or trapezoid or triangle or any fucking [00:55:00] shape that we can come up with because he simply just will not 

Heather: Hm. there’s okay. Don can walk right into a crack house. He can talk to us when we’re high it’s happened to me and stuff like that before some people feel like you’re drunk or high, or you’re in certain places that are darker than the forest, that God is not there, but God’s actually everywhere.


De’Vannon: the Bible says, he’s as near to us as the air we breathe on and there’s air Everywhere.

Heather: W. 

De’Vannon: you got conservative folks out there who want to say, he’s only going to be here because he can only do this. I don’t get do that, that’s just their opinion. And they’re going to try to sell it to you as fact and law and the only way, but that’s That’s just one way of looking at things. 

Heather: Well, it’s crazy. You know, I had an aunt that she went Pentecostal and I love Pentecostal churches, the, the feeling in them, you know, but I just can’t do get down with like, you know, a lot of the message, but she stopped hanging out with the family because we were [00:56:00] sinners and I’m like, Jesus hung out with sinners.

this has no biblical basis.

De’Vannon: But that’s the way Pentecostals are. I grew up Pentecostal. I agree with you. I love the way it’s failed, but I don’t get down with the message because the message is very like church. People are better than everyone else, because I used to sit there thinking, God, how did I end up so lucky to be here? And the whole world is going to burn in hell, but just not the Pentecostal people like that.

That is exactly what they believe with how they think, and everything is a problem and it’s wrong. And you know, it’s, it’s very. You know, the grounded in a lot of insecurity because people could really make themselves feel great about themselves, the way they step on other people in Pentecostal churches.

And I wanted to touch on something that you were saying about the sort of person who was smoking this here, crack, because it was as if, yeah, I’ve smoked crack in my day too. 

Heather: smoked crack crack [00:57:00] rocks.

De’Vannon: It literally crack rocks. and, and this is something that I really like to talk about a lot is because crack heads and the drug use in general is not like it’s done, like on documentaries are like saying Dave Chappelle and his whole Tyrone begins, know, not every crack head is homeless with white powdery lips and a beanie.

And all of that. I used to sell crack to white men who lived in huge and. Houses. This is one house we went to closet was so big that me, the four dope boys who came with me and all of us could set in there with plenty of space to smoke the crack off of a mirror and everything like that. And this dude, I was lived in a damn good neighborhood in Houston, Texas, and it was not what you would think he 

Heather: Right. 

De’Vannon: teeth, know, and all of that and everything like that.

And it’s not. It’s like governor Chris Christie. He likes, he likes cracking prostitutes. That’s when he [00:58:00] was in the news for, you know, he’s overweight and fat and white in a governor and he wants him some crack bitch. 

Heather: Yeah. Hi, I you know, Paul politicians I didn’t did I say, I don’t remember if I saw a politicians. I, it probably just didn’t stick cause I don’t give a fuck. Like high powered jobs, you know, lawyers, lawyers, love Coke, love Coke, love, crack doctors, love, Coke, love, crack you know, CEOs, you know that there’s, there’s, there’s kind of a profile that goes with, you know, jobs and the type of drugs that people are more commonly going to do in them.

And a high power bite, man. Love, love some fucking blow. They do. I can, I can confirm that.

De’Vannon: I know I can sell so much cocaine and upscale bars and stuff, you know, they’d call me, I’d pull up with like an eight ball go in there. It’s just a group of probably Caucasian people partying it up in VIP. That shit sold so [00:59:00] fast. know, they can 

Heather: Yeah. 

De’Vannon: it. It’s a quick high, you got to keep more to say getting high.

It’s a smart bet. You know, you’re going to be a drug dealer, 

Heather: Well the problem being like the, the penalties were, are so high. It was one of the reasons why I love selling pussy because it was missing. You know, I, I can, you know, I, it, that you’ve got it. You sell it, you still got it. You have to re up.

De’Vannon: Well, you can go to Oregon now, know, and you know, you don’t, the penalties are less severe, you know, there’s no more going to jail for simple possession. there is for like dealers, but 

Heather: Yeah. 

De’Vannon: general attitude in the state of Oregon is like lenient towards the drugs in general. 

Heather: Well, because the thing is like the war on drugs, again, we’re back to this. What you fight fights back. The war on drugs does not work. You know decriminalization has been shown in, in other places to be much better for all consensual crimes, you know, D decrim [01:00:00] criminalizing, it doesn’t help anything. It just makes it worse and just drives it underground.

Like these are basic human desires, and they’re not going anywhere. They’re just going to be subverted where it’s going to be a lot more dangerous for everybody involved.

De’Vannon: It makes it taboo and people love danger. People love what they can’t have. 

Heather: That, that too, I’ve actually read studies where they said that kids were less likely to go get high in places that there wasn’t a stigma around it. It was like, oh, I can just go to the store and buy weed. But it’s like, okay, we’ve got to call my cousin and he’s got a call his best friend’s girlfriend so that we can find, you know, this dude that she knows, you know, and then we get there and we can’t just buy the weed.

We gotta go find him. A pair of Jordans

De’Vannon: It’s a whole thing, 

Heather: becomes like an adventure. Right. It was like all implicated, you know, but if we, if you could just, you know, walk into a store and be like, give me an eight, you know, like that’s not very exciting, whatever.[01:01:00]

De’Vannon: One of the drugs, one of the meth suppliers that I used to give my meth from that he would, he would say that was, that was probably the main reason why he stayed supplying crystal meth in Houston was because of the, the thrill of almost getting caught. So tells me if you make it illegal, Hey, everyone can just sell whatever.

the fuck they want.

He probably shut it down because there’s no more thrilled with the chase. There’s no more Tom and Jerry, more Wiley coyote in the road runner and there’s. 

Heather: My shit I do. I miss. I that’s one of the things I missed about escorting was that just like I’m doing something kind of like, you know, I’m doing something illegal. I might get caught, you know, behind this door, it could be a rapist and killer. It could be a hot sports, you know, hot pitcher. It could be a cop.

I don’t know, you know, like it’s just, there’s one of the things that we found in, in recovery is that you’re, you’re not just addicted to the drugs. You’re addicted to the drama and the adrenaline, you know, change. [01:02:00] So people are always going to get their kicks. Criminalization is just, it’s the worst idea.

It just, it just feeds the prison, industrial complex, all of those.

De’Vannon: absolutely. And hopefully, you know what, I, just speak and declare it will all be legal one day. 

Heather: Well, I I like, I like the decrim because if you, if you make it so that it’s still illegal, unless you have a license or something, you’re still going to be wasting cop band, power and space and everything on, on people who are selling it outside. Right. Selling it outside of the legal system. But having an option of like, you can go buy from Joe, blow Coke dealer on the corner, if that’s what gets you off, or you can just go to this dispensary, right.

You can go get the stuff that has been it’s legally, it’s been documented, you know, exactly what’s in it. But if you want to risk your life, you know, with your neighborhood guy, go do that. Whatever, like we’ll be there with an ambulance.

De’Vannon: James would say it’s hospital time. [01:03:00] He’d get 

Heather: Yeah. 

De’Vannon: So tell us about, when did you find out you had breast cancer and at what stage did it get to. 

Heather: So ladies, go get your fucking mammograms. Let me say this. I hate Western medicine. I stopped using, you know, most doctors services, you know, about 10 years ago and I was doing everything everything’s through supplements and did amazing things for my health in so many fucking ways, but I would still go get checkups.

So I got a checkup just really out of spite because I was about to leave my corporate job that I fucking hated. I was at leasing, a leasing agent for an apartment complex. Talk about dirty, talk about dirty practices in the fucking leasing industry. Holy shit. And I hated it. So I was just about to quit and start my limo company.

And I went to just use the health insurance one last time and got my, my yearly exam. And I go in, I hadn’t felt anything in my breasts. The [01:04:00] doctor did a breast exam. While I was there and he was like, Hey, I don’t feel anything, but you know, you’re over 40, go get your mammogram. So I went and got the mammogram and I’m just thinking, you know, whatever, you know, I’m fine.

 Few days later got the call and had to go get a follow-up mammogram was turned into having a biopsy. So when they did the biopsy, they’re like, yeah, it’s stage zero, which I’d never even heard of stage zero. They’re like at stage zero, but it’s the worst type of stage zero that there is. And you probably have invasive cancer in your, your outside of your milk ducks.

 It’s just not showing in this biopsy. So they’re like you need to get a mastectomy and radiation and I’m like, hold up, I’ve got stage zero, which I’ve never even heard of. And the, the nice thing that you can do is cut me and burn me. I’m like, it doesn’t fucking make any sense. So I got several second opinions, which I encourage antibody, anything you’re going through.

Go get second. And but everybody confirmed. They’re like, yeah, it’s cancer. So when I finally got the mastectomy three months [01:05:00] later what they thought was stage zero turned out to be stage three. It had gotten into three of my lymph nodes. And whereas before they were saying, you know, and it was, it was a seven centimeter area of disease and it was unbeatable at all.

It was stage three and you still couldn’t feel anything. So yeah, so I had that had that done and found out I was going to have to have chemo. And it was really, really, really, really pissed off. I actually went through another period of suicidal ideation when that happened, but I had therapy, you know, I had a therapist and you know, really great group of friends.

 to go through six chemo treatments 25 radiation treatments, and I got burn so bad that my boom looked like . It was awful. But wound care actually helped me heal that in like two weeks. I did not think I would have been possible. So six real chemo treatments and then seven and a half months of infusion drugs.

And now I’m clear and I’ve been clear [01:06:00] for three years. So I’m on the downside of the little graph of recurrence, possibility of concern for it. So right now I have beat it. So grateful. So fucking grateful. 

De’Vannon: I am the Lauren chow. 

Heather: Yes, I got, I got rebaptized after I, that at my aunt’s Pentecostal church, I was like, I’m gonna go get baptized 

De’Vannon: What’s a step up 

Heather: slain in the spirit and everything,

De’Vannon: as a step up from shaving your head 

Heather: you know, but the funny thing is I was completely bald when that happened, because I had been through.

De’Vannon: that too. So you didn’t go to church bald after all. 

Heather: I did. And they got it on TV for the whole world to see. And I think it was just Facebook at the time. Now, now they’re on TV. I’m like, okay, whatever.

De’Vannon: Ain’t nothing wrong with being slain in the spirit, as long as it’s, you know, an authentic experience. And it can be [01:07:00] hard to tell with, with some when it is. And when it isn’t. Sometimes I say, I’m, I share about sister Susie. You know, she’s the one who’s always faking it every Sunday. There she go up and down the aisle. This is not a 

Heather: Yeah. 

De’Vannon: Susie moment. That’s what a re-invention want it to do something to signify your rebirth and the Lord touched you. And 


Heather: And so I had gone to her church a couple of times and she, her, her congregation takes it a step further. It’s not just that only Pentecostals are going to heaven. Her church is the only church that is going to have an other Pentecostals in other churches, all over the world. Everybody’s going to hell, except for the people in.

Church and they believe this, they really fucking believe it. So I knew that it was a little crazy, but I went and there were things I liked about it. And I went a few times and they didn’t preach against gays. And I was like, well, this is different. This is kind of cool. You know? So I went to get baptized and I’d seen all these people fall out.

And I was like, about half of that is real. I was like about half of it’s real. And half of it is somebody are so afraid that somebody is looking at them [01:08:00] and seeing their, the person who didn’t get slain in the spirit. And what is everybody going to think if I didn’t speak in tongues and all that mess.

And so I went up there and I just thought it was a symbolic thing. Right. And you know, they asked me, they’re like, no, why are you doing this microphone in my face? And I’m like, yeah, this is what God needs is, you know, all this equipment, all this audio, visual equipment and whatever. And they’re like, you know, what are you doing?

And I was like, I’m just asking God to remove me everything that stands in the way of me, you know, living, you know, for my highest good for, you know, other people’s highest good doing well. So they don’t. And then they, like, we’re carrying the out of the pool. And I was like, why are they carrying me? Like, I can stand up.

But I realized later my eyes were closed, but they, they went and they draped me over this girl’s lap who was sitting on the stairs in the back of the pool. And these three girls were like praying over me. And I started just convulsing. And I was like, this is weird. And it was like being struck by spiritual lightning.

And it was like, so [01:09:00] enlivening, but it was like, it, it felt like somebody touching your sexual organ after you’ve had an orgasm and you’re like, whoa, too much. And so I like drank it in and I was like, holy shit. So that’s what that feels like, you know, like, wow. Like that’s, that’s what that feels like. I guess some of those people, I never doubted that knowing if it was real, but I did think that a lot of it was fake.

 So it was interesting to have a genuine experience. I was like, huh,

De’Vannon: I’ve had experiences like that. Only a handful of times, 

Heather: Yeah. 

De’Vannon: enough to know that it’s real. And I’ve been praying a lot lately in my prayers as a Lord who begins to reveal himself to people ways like that, that people are 

Heather: Um, 

De’Vannon: undeniable or in some sort of way, send an angel, send the dream, touch them with that spiritual lightning so that he becomes a real to them because all my talking and all of that, know, I can’t expect somebody to believe in a God that hasn’t revealed himself to them in some [01:10:00] sort of way, 

Heather: yeah. 

De’Vannon: way.

That makes sense to their psyche. 

Heather: Yup. 

De’Vannon: been, so I’ve been praying for the Lord to go forth, show himself to people because there’s so much fakeness going on in the news and our politics and everything like that. I’m asking the Lord to give people something real, know, to give them himself because that’s the only thing that makes sense in the midst of all of this confusion 

Heather: Amen. And how old are you? I love that’s a beautiful prayer. That is a beautiful.

De’Vannon: So, the last thing we’re going to talk about, and then I’ll let you have the last word. Is this, you had some media appearances on a, B and C. was a documentary for one of them called sex drugs and consenting adults. I want to know how this came about, how they heard about what you, what, why would the, why do they want you for this documentary?

What did you contribute?

Heather: So when I was with the, my first year of working, I had a really negative experience with a client that tried to [01:11:00] rape me. And when I called the police, the police arrested us both and they told me if I would let him go, that they wouldn’t press charges against me. And you know, he didn’t have a mark on him.

I had a, like a cut on the side of my head where he backhanded me and it pissed me the fuck off. I went to jail for the night, the next day I got up or didn’t get up. I don’t wake up, but I, you know, spent the night in jail and had to let this guy go in front of a judge because I, I didn’t know what to do in this situation.

And then I found out that there were prostitutes rights activists, and the first one was called off your old tired ethics. The acronym was Cody and they started out with force in California. And I found out that they had a sister organization in Atlanta called hooking is real employment or higher.

And the woman who ran that was a woman named Dolores. And she had written a book. She was the first sex worker to come on and talk show without covering her face. Like she went on, you know, unmasked with her real name and everything, and just told [01:12:00] everybody, she’s like, this is a job. This is what I love.

You know, this is what I believe. So I read the book and I, I recognize some parts of her story. I was like, wait a minute. That sounds like the agency I work for. So I contacted them and they were like, they’re like, yeah, we know that she’s great. You should get in touch with her. So it took a while, but I finally got in touch with her and she was kind of over being the face of this organization.

So she just turned it over to me and I became my mentor. So she had been on Donahue, Geraldo I think everything except Oprah. I mean, she’d been on like all the major talk shows, so she had a lot of media contacts and ABC contacted her and you know, wanting somebody to interview you interview and she.

You know, I’ve got this, I’ve got this girl. So for the first one, the sex roles and consenting adults they just wanted, they wanted to do like just a scene of me walking in to see a client, but she negotiated with them and she was like, no, we’ll give you that. But only way we’ll we’ll do that [01:13:00] is if you also interview her, you know, and actually use at least one of her, you know, talking points.

And so I think I only had like one talking point that they actually used. It was like maybe a 30 minute interview and they cut it down to like one sentence. But it was, I was making the comparison between boxing and prostitution. It’s like, why is it okay for people to use their bodies in this way?

But not that. Kind of find out they’re trying to outlaw boxing too, or they were at the time. So it wasn’t really a great comparison, but you’d say like a ballerina uses her body to make money and it’s okay. Why is it not okay for a woman to choose, to use her body, to massage people with other parts of her body, essentially.

So I did that. I was on the local news a couple of times. I was on an MTV documentary and that one. I was featured very heavily in it, over three of us. And I think I got the most screen time out of anybody. And I did stand up comedy about my life as a call girl. I spoke to the abnormal psych classes at Georgia state university and Emory university which [01:14:00] was a lot of fun, you know, for people to see, like it’s not the stereotype, I’m not the person you expect to come in, you know, saying that they’re a sex worker.

 But it was really all just to raise awareness. It’s like, this is a job we’re, we’re people, you know, and just fucking, let us, let us do our jobs. This is what we want to do. Let us go do it. You know, people be in traffic, that’s fucked up people being forced into this by nefarious. You know, people that’s fucked up, but people, those of us who just wake up one day and say, Hey, I would really like to have a blow job.

Be a real job. Let us go.

De’Vannon: I would support that industry. It is hard work to suck. Dick. You need like a neck massage and everything. When you’re done in hand jobs. Oh, don’t get me started. It’s a great way to stay toned. 

Heather: But it was also a great way to have carpal tunnel. I have carpal tunnel I did for a while. And it was because of, you know, cause you can’t just be doing this. You got to get the twist in there. You know, you 

gotta like. 

De’Vannon: You got to work this [01:15:00] shit. Okay though. I like.

always let my guests have the last word Heather. So what advice it could be, you can speak to anyone, any audience, any plane of existence, whatever in from, from your heart to whomever you know, what would you say? What would you say to my listeners? Would you say. 

Heather: So I’m going to go back to the mission. You mentioned about one of the hardest things for me as a coach, as a, as a new coach, was that so many people’s stories were, I went to college, I had a corporate job, I killed it in the corporate job. I hated it. And now I’m a coach. And my, my story was I’m a college dropout ex drug addict, hooker, you know, and it was like, and what my story didn’t fit with other people’s.

And now I know it’s my superpower, the time, like it just, it made it really hard. And I really [01:16:00] doubted myself more. It was like, yeah, they can do it because they they’ve had normal lives. Like, I, I can’t, I can’t do it because I’m not normal, you know, was my thing. And so that’s, that’s, you know, I want people to know number one, I meant to be a transformational coach.

Never meant to be a business coach. I want people to know that there are ways for you to heal from. And just because you had shitty things happen, I’ve been raped. I’ve you know, was molested. I grew up in really highly difficult dysfunctional family dynamics. You know, I’ve been suicidal, all the stuff I’ve come out the other side of it because I wanted it that bad.

And I worked until I found ways and, you know, went into something and it didn’t work. I moved on to the next thing, like, okay, well, if that didn’t work, I’m going to try EFT. If that doesn’t work, I’m gonna try hypnosis. If that doesn’t work. like every, every step of the way you’re going to get some healing.

Some things are gonna work better than others, just keep trying, just keep trying. Right. And just because you’ve got trauma in your past, it doesn’t have to define you, right. Just because you have addiction in your past, it doesn’t have to define you. And, you [01:17:00] know, just because you’ve made the choice to engage in criminal activity, that doesn’t have to define you.

It doesn’t have to be who you are, you know? And even if you are still a drug dealer, it doesn’t mean that you can’t. Good things in the world, right. So I just want to let people know your past only defines you if you let it. And you know, you don’t have to be like me and be asked out and be talking about, you know, giving hand jobs and telling people you love them.

Cause Jesus told you to you know, I think more of us need to be real about, you know, where we come from and just know that there, there are people out there that had some really shady past, or really like tragic things in their past and they’ve overcome it and there being a positive contribution to the world and, and you can see,

De’Vannon: You get the Nancy Pelosi side chamber. Clap on that one. Thank you so much, honey. For all of your words of encouragement, your transparency. That’s a key thing that I look for with [01:18:00] anybody that I’m going to have on my show is the ability to, to really talk about what the hell happened and not beat around the bus.

She doesn’t give us the T. 

Heather: all the T

De’Vannon: People of course can find you Heather Wylde.com the T a T H T R w Y L D e.com. And all of that will be in the show notes. And then we will go from there, honey. Thank you so much. And I look forward to having you back on the show again, once your book is out. 

Heather: lovely. Well, thank you. Thank you. All the listeners. Thank you, Devon, for having me on. I really appreciate you. I love what you’re doing in the world. So keep at it.

De’Vannon: Thank you all so much for taking time to listen to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast. It really means everything to me. Look, if you love the show, you can find more information and [01:19:00] resources at sex, drugs, and jesus.com or wherever you listen to your podcast. Feel free to reach out to me directly at DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com and on Twitter and Facebook as well.

My name is De’Vannon and it’s been wonderful being your host today and just remember that everything is going to be all right.



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