Episode #41: A Spotlight on Haiti, the Beauty of Death, Becoming a Widow and VooDoo Part I with Kim Sorrelle, Author & Speaker



Why Love?


A couple of years ago, I heard about a man who committed to living like Jesus for an entire year. Wow! That’s some commitment. I imagined the transformation that would undoubtedly happen. To find that joyful peace, or is it unwavering grit, insightful compassion, or humble adoration? Whichever way, each way, in all ways, life would never be the same. 


I thought about how I would approach that challenge. How would I know that I was truly living like Jesus?


Then it hit me; John says God is love. So to live like Jesus would be living love. But what is love? And how would I live love while crossing cultures with one foot on U.S. soil and the other in places like Haiti, where love is both obviously abundant and seemingly scarce, challenging and effortless simultaneously? 


Not wholly unfamiliar, just listening to music, reading books, and sitting through many sermons, I have learned a thing or two about love. I know that it is universal, timeless, and ageless. It is a feeling, a choice, a given. It is all-encompassing, enduring, and everlasting.


Love conquers all, never fails, and keeps us together. But it hurts, gets lost, and takes time.


There are love bugs, love seats, and love boats. There are love notes, love songs, and love birds.


Love is a dare, a game, a language. You can be lovesick, loveless, and lovely.


You can fall in love, be addicted to love, would do anything in the name of love, playing the game of love with the power of love.

You can’t hurry it or buy it and don’t know if it will be there tomorrow. Yet love is all you need.


They say love the one you are with, and find the love of your life because love wins.


There’s even a “Love Chapter” in the Bible.


We’ve heard the “Love Chapter” (1 Corinthians 13:4-8) read and expounded on many times (mostly at weddings). It’s one of the most memorized, admired, and well-known passages in all Scripture, even by non-church folk. We’ve heard this famous passage so often our eyes kind of glaze over. “Love is patient; love is kind, does not env…” Yeah, yeah. We know how this goes.


But what is love, really? 


So John says God is love. Bob the Tomato says God is bigger than the boogie man, Godzilla, and the monsters on T.V. So the love that is God must be way bigger than my love of black licorice and movie theater popcorn. 


Jesus named the number one law of all of the laws, and there were tons. Leviticus, the third book of the Torah and the Old Testament, lists most of the 613 rules of conduct. He could have picked any one of them. Murder is pretty heavy. Stealing isn’t exactly harmless. Adultery can destroy families in a hurry. Lying about someone could get you and them into a heap of trouble. But with no hesitation, he picked the one that sat right in between “don’t carry a grudge or seek revenge” and “don’t mate two different kinds of animals.” (Leviticus 19:18) Jesus basically said, “That’s an easy one. Love God and love people.” Just like that. There is no exception clause, no fine print, no room for interpretation, love people, all of them, every single one.+


Even deeper, Paul said that you can’t go wrong if you love people because love is the fulfillment of the law. Fulfillment, like an Amazon order, picked out of the warehouse, loaded, delivered, fulfilled. It’s complete, buttoned-up, stick a fork in it, done. All of it, all 613 laws, if you love with the same love that God is, you don’t break any. So WWJD (what would Jesus do) is interchangeable with WWLD (what would love do). 


It makes sense then if you understand love than live love, your life would change. If that love got a little contagious, the whole world could be a better place. 


I will figure out love one word at a time, taking 1 Corinthians 13 to heart and feet. Live it, learn it, love it. It is quite a list, a list that I think I already know, but somehow I think I have a lot to learn. 


“Love is patient; love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.  Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.  Love never fails.” I Corinthians 13: 4-8 N.I.V.


INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to):


·      The Benefits of Black Licorice 

·      Becoming a Widow

·      Success and Failures

·      Surviving Cancer

·      The Beauty of Death

·      Leaving Medical Diagnoses on Voicemails

·      The Pain of Mammograms

·      Can’t Pray the Gay Away

·      The Difference Between God and the Church

·      The Pressures of Living a Lie

·      A Spotlight on Haiti 




Website & Books: https://www.KimSorrelle.com

YouTube: https://bit.ly/3vRFWXf

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/loveisbykim/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kimsorrelle/?hl=en

Twitter: https://twitter.com/Kim_Sorrelle

LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3tEzK24




·      All You Need Is Love (The Beatles): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7xMfIp-irg





Website: https://www.SexDrugsAndJesus.com

YouTube: https://bit.ly/3daTqCM

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SexDrugsAndJesus/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sexdrugsandjesuspodcast/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/TabooTopix

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devannon

Email: DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com





·      Pray Away Documentary (NETFLIX)


TRAILER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_CqGVfxEs


·      Upwork: https://www.upwork.com

·      FreeUp: https://freeup.net

·      Disabled American Veterans (DAV): https://www.dav.org

·      American Legion: https://www.legion.org


·      Black Licorice (consult your doctor):



·      What The World Needs Now (Dionne Warwick): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfHAs9cdTqg





·      PodMatch is awesome! This application streamlines the process of finding guests for your show and also helps you find shows to be a guest on. The PodMatch Community is a part of this and that is where you can ask questions and get help from an entire network of people so that you save both money and time on your podcasting journey.







You’re listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to! And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right at the end of the day. My name is De’Vannon and I’ll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world as we dig into topics that are too risqué for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what’s really going on in your life.

There is nothing off the table and we’ve got a lot to talk about. So let’s dive right into this episode.

De’Vannon: Hey everyone. And welcome to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast. I’m so thankful to have you with me again this week. God bless each. And every last one of you, Kim Sorrelle is my guest. Today. She is the author of two beautiful books and she has an incredible story. This is a woman has become like a sister to me and I am so excited to present her to the world.

And in today’s episode, we’re going to talk about the benefits of black licorice. She’s going to [00:01:00] tell us about how she became a widow. We’re going to talk about the beauty of death and why doctors should not leave negative medical news on voicemails. Now, cam has a special love in our heart for Haiti.

And so we spend quite a bit of time talking about Haiti, and then we get into a little bit about a voodoo, take a close, listen to this episode, and I hope you get a lot out of.

Good morning. Good morning, Ms. Kim. So REL, welcome to the sex drugs and Jesus pod has today in the name of God. How are you doing woman?

Kim: I am doing fabulous and I am so grateful to be here. And how are you?

De’Vannon: I am fan fucking tastic van fucking tabulates and scrum daily. I’m shit. If I do say so myself, so I’m so happy to have you with me today. [00:02:00] I do believe that you’re going to breathe in a shitload of value to my beautiful audience out there. Kevin likes to keep it real everybody. And so here we go. She’s an author.

She’s an entrepreneur. He’s a speaker. She’s a cancer survivor and T the lover of black liquid. I’m going to give you a moment to talk about like your own history and your own way and adjust the second. But I wanted to dig into this a lover of black licorice, because never before what I’ve read into somebodies headlines on their profiles and things like that, that they mentioned any sort of candy or derivative of a, of a root or plant Loeser what licorice is.

So I want you to tell me what is so special. What’s so damn special about this black licorice, that it was worthy to go into your heading.

Kim: How does a good question? Well, I feel like more people don’t like black licorice than do like black licorice. And I can’t imagine my life without it. It’s just one of [00:03:00] those things I grew up. My, my favorite aunt, my aunt Rita, my great aunt always had black licorice in her pantry and she ran a home for old folks and I love going there and helping her out.

And at the end of the day, having a piece of black licorice as a treat and I that’s. Where am I love started for black licorice and it continued on. Apparently 

De’Vannon: Did you know, my dear that there are health, health benefits to black licorice. 

Kim: tell me. 

De’Vannon: So when I came across this, on your profile, it stood out to me. And so then I went digging around and shit as I do. And And so what I found, and I’m going to put a link of this link to web MD in the show notes of people can go and look it up, but it says it can help.

It can help digestion blacklist by the laser. It’s gonna help your digestive system work more [00:04:00]effectively. It can ease symptoms from indigestion, heartburn and ulcers. Black licorice extracts have been linked to a reduction in the bacteria that calls cause ulcers. And I could’ve sworn, I read something about this.

Can have some sort of like maybe cancer-fighting qualities too. And so considering your history with cancer, which I’m going to let you tell us about, I was wondering if maybe a Lord was watching out for you. Early on in life before you got your diagnosis, because sometimes we have a taste for things that are going to heal us, and we don’t necessarily realize it at the time.

We just know we keep craving that for some reason. And so I’m wondering if perhaps you were drawn to that in order to help you overcome, you know, what you would be fighting later on in life.

Kim: Interesting. Yeah. I love the idea of that. I have to say. Cause that’s true. Like you hear about women that are expecting babies and crave certain things because there’s [00:05:00] iron in it or there’s something in it that, that they need or the baby needs or people in general. So yeah, couldn’t possibly be for sure.

De’Vannon: Yeah. So I’m just gonna read this real quick, then I’ll hush and let, I was just so fascinated by this cause I’m a, I’m a licensed massage therapist and I like to get into natural healing and stuff like that. I have a shitload of essential Earls and everything like that. And so anything natural that we can do for ourselves, you know, sometimes the remedy that we need are like right there on the shelf in the house.

And we don’t know, you know, 

Kim: Right, right. 

De’Vannon: you know, then we go run into doctor via pumped, full all these drugs. Sometimes that’s a good thing. Sometimes it’s not. So I’m just gonna read this here. So it says a substance extracted from licorice root little cow cone dash a has been shown to have antitumor activity and acute leukemia breast and prostate cancer cell lines by lowering the amount [00:06:00] of BCL two, whatever the fuck that is a drug resistant protein excessive amounts of this protein are frequently associated with these cancers.

Licorice is actually a plant and is found in like a couple of different countries in the world. And then that’s how they make that black licorice candy. But it’s not all sugar. It’s bitter. Isn’t that like the sweetest thing on the shelf. So yeah. I want you to know that and everybody else let’s get some licorice y’all

Kim: There you go, you just see a level bunch of people. 

De’Vannon: so, so tell us about like what you, whatever you want to say about your history, and then go ahead and segue into the cancer story.

Kim: Sure. Yeah. So I was going to be the first woman. That was my plan. And so I had my life laid out before me and knew where I was going to go. And when I was going to do, and then may of my senior year in high school, this man walked through the door [00:07:00] and I fell head over heels in love with him after swearing, I would never get married and have children because I had my life laid out.

And 10 days after I met him, I asked him if he’d marry me. And he said, yes. And then we got married a little bit less than a year later. And so I was 17 when I got engaged in 18. When I got married, he was 22 when we got married. And he was the love of my life. I mean, I felt like we dated for a whole bunch of years.

A couple years later, the baby started coming. I’ve got five kids and 11 grandkids and So big family. I know it’s fun. It’s so fun. And I love taking them to Disney world. They have this place on earth and they do sell like licorice at this new world. So that’s good too. So, yeah, and I started my first business right out of high school.

I’m not, intrepreneur sure. I’ve had businesses my whole life and and I run a nonprofit organization. I coached [00:08:00] varsity volleyball for 25 years and just whatever, been active and busy. And I’ve written a couple of books. 

De’Vannon: You know what? That’s not a bad life. 

Kim: No, It’s a great life.

De’Vannon: It’s not a bad life at all because you’ve, you’ve taken risks. You understand failure. You tell me about, tell me about at any point in your life where you failed at something, maybe it was a business, something that you try to do, and it didn’t work out. Cause I wanted to illustrate because clearly you didn’t get discouraged and you kept trying, and business can be a bitch to get into all the obstacles, the paperwork, the documentation.

There’s not really a clear path. And in, so sometimes we fail and we don’t try again. So tell me about a time that you tried to do something. It just didn’t work out.

Kim: Yeah. Well, there’s more than one of those stories to tell. I’ll tell you that. I tried different businesses over the years. I was in business [00:09:00] on some businesses with my, my brother and my dad and some businesses alone and whatever. But we one business that didn’t work out for me was fine dining.

 I have a golf course and and banquet facilities. So we do events, but we had fine dining. And that was, that’s a tough road, man. Anybody in the restaurant business, I have so much respect for. I’ve been in the catering business for years, you know exactly how many people are coming, what time they’re coming and what they’re eating.

Restaurant business is a whole different game, even staffing and knowing what food to have on hand and everything else. And there’s so much loss of food and you can overstaff, or you can understand it. It’s the, there’s such a science to it. And to have one standalone restaurant and survive is amazing miracle hats off to those people.

A lot of times you need more than one to [00:10:00] share expense and true income coming in. So yeah, that’s that’s, that’s somebody, I have a whole lot of respect for people in the restaurant. This. 

De’Vannon: Yeah, I’ve been a server I’ve worked in restaurants. I’ve worked for catering companies. Yeah, it’s, it’s a bitch of an industry to be in, especially in the states because of the attitude that, that is here. You know, this may be the last country on the planet that actually still tip servers rather than just paying them, being fucking done with it.

So I’ve wanted to highlight that because you know, with the pandemic and everything, people, you know, the world has. Like a sun has arisen over us. And I’m thankful for the disruption of the Corona virus, because it’s shaken a lot of people up out of their bullshit as lie of a life that they had told themselves they were.

But what I’m saying is that they were living a life that they really weren’t happy with in the first place, they were lying to themselves and [00:11:00] accepting that as reality, they weren’t happy. So the Corona virus took them away from the delusion long enough to get a new perspective. And then so a lot of people didn’t go back to the bullshit.

However, just because they’re on a new path, doesn’t mean it’s going to be all gravy and flowers. You know, Dick sucking and all of that, you know, this is going to be some fuckery along the way. And so what, what, what words of encouragement that you say to people who are new to entrepreneurship, especially in this time that we live with so many people are, are trying new things and it doesn’t matter if it’s, you know, starting your own Lyft or Uber business, you’re still an entrepreneur, you know, what would you say.

Kim: I would say, do not give up. Don’t give up. Don’t give up. No, there been so many stories, story after story of people who their first try failed for second, try failed. Their third thing failed, you know, whatever in the publishing world. There’s one of the books that has sold more books than [00:12:00]practically any other book in the world, maybe any other book in the world is the chicken soup for the soul series.

If you’ve heard of it, I’m Jack Canfield and they had 144 rejections before they got a publisher to publish their book 144 and they have sold 650 million books. 650 million books. That’s Yeah.

no kidding. And so, so you look at that and go, well, what if they would’ve stopped at 1 42. And just given up, right.

Harry Potter was rejected 11 times before publisher said yes. What if she wouldn’t? What if JK Rowling’s would have stopped that number 10 and just didn’t put it out there anymore. Just don’t give up. Don’t believe in what you’re doing. Work your butt off. Realize that entrepreneurship is the hardest road you sometimes I think people look at it and go, oh gosh, you’re [00:13:00] your own boss?

True. Oh gosh, you can set your own hours. Yes. But your own hours are more than anybody else. That’s going to work for you. And you have to do everything alone at first, you know, like it takes up a long time to be in business before you take a vacation. So it’s it’s the hardest work you’ll ever do.

The most rewarding work you’ll ever do. And really you, your name, your own price, you know, however hard you decide to work, whatever you decide to put into it is what you’re going to get at. 

De’Vannon: Correct. And I couldn’t agree more from having my own businesses and everything like that. It’s bittersweet in that aspect. Like you do call your own shots. So it depends on what your value system is. Like. I value freedom. I love to come and go as I please. And I don’t like being told what to do.

Therefore, even though I got to go out there and hustle and make my own money every day, [00:14:00]my mental health is in a better state because I would rather the pressure of having to make my own money than to have a dumb ass boss telling me what to do and dumb ass coworkers, fucking up my vibe. 

Kim: So the military was great for you then. 

De’Vannon: the military and suck my fucking Dick.

But yeah, I was 17 when I went to the military. I don’t recommend that. You don’t recommend it at all. Nothing. Since we mentioned Ms. JK Rowling, I always like to say, fuck you, JK Rowling for for being a damn turf, you know, and tariff is a trans exclusionary radical feminist because he has those strong views against like in like, you know, people, women who transitioned because he’s like, I’m a real woman.

Those bitches are not. So she’s. 

Kim: I didn’t know that about her. 

De’Vannon: Oh, God Google it. This bitch has been being bragged for filth and by the gay community of the two S LGBTQ plus community [00:15:00] for quite a while now, because she has liked certain posts and say a certain things, especially on her damn Twitter, I think so we love her forgiving us, Harry Potter.

We love her for giving us the gay Dumbledore that was at a cute little sneak attack that she, you know, did that, or at least the fact that he was gay after all the books came out. So I appreciate the fuck out of her for that, but so she’s not like against the gay people, but I don’t like how she is against the trans girls to, you know, 

Kim: Yeah, that’s too bad. Yeah. 

De’Vannon: it is too bad, but, you know, so she’s bittersweet, you know, you know, and that’s just where I stand on that.

 So, so let’s talk about. The cancer. So some of my research and you, it wasn’t just you who had cancer, you had breast cancer and said your husband had pancreatic pancreatic cancer. Now it’s not very often. I talked to a person who were two people in their household had cancer at the same time. So walk me through the emotion.

I [00:16:00] want to know where you were when you found out he had cancer. When you had cancer, where you were physically and where you were mentally.

Kim: Yeah, well, hopefully this will be valuable to people. I was 47 years old when I found out I had cancer and I Fought getting a mammogram because I thought, oh, it’s just a medical system making money. There’s no breast cancer in my history that I would know if I had cancer. Like I just, I fought getting them a grams.

And so I did not get them every year. Like you’re supposed to, they’re painful. They’re horrible. It was obviously a man who invented the machine that turns your breast into a pancake. It is not a comfortable thing to have to do. And so I, I didn’t want to do it. So I, I had you know, but like every few years and you’re supposed to go more often than I, I was going.

So my doctor convinced me to go and I went, I actually went to the [00:17:00] doctor because I tend to sell well. And she said, you know, you’ve not had a mammogram for a while. You really need to go. And so I went kicking and screaming and I said, Poor sweet ladies that were working at the Betty Ford clinic. I said, I am not having to be here.

Like, this is ridiculous. I, this is a waste of my time. I’m a busy person. I shouldn’t even have to be here doing this. And they were very sweet and very nice and did the mammogram, and then they make you wait. And then they wanted to do an ultrasound and they did that and they scheduled me for biopsy. And I was like, this is such a waste of time.

There is no way there’s anything wrong. And then on a Friday afternoon, two days after my birthday, actually, I wish I had a couple of my grandbabies in the bathtub and my phone rang at like three o’clock in the afternoon. And and they said Kim, the biopsies back, and you have breast cancer.

And [00:18:00] that’s pretty much all I heard. It was like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We’ll call you on Tuesday. I was like, what? And they’re calling me on a Friday afternoon, you know, and I watch lifetime movies. I like the lifetime good lifetime movie. And that never happens that way. You get called into the office.

They tell you face to face. You can ask questions, you know, it’s the big dramatic moment, right? No, they called me on the phone on a flip and Friday afternoon when I can ask no questions. That was frustrating to me. And so anyway, I didn’t even know how to react. I started crying. I called my husband on the phone.

He was at work and, and I could, could barely get the words out and, and it seemed like seconds later he was there and any did the right thing. All of you who have a significant other out there, he did, this is what you should do. He just grabbed me and held me. He just held me and we cried together.

Cause we [00:19:00] didn’t know what the future health and that cancer word is a scary, scary word. And so the next day I went to the bookstore and all the books about breast cancer were either very depressing or just medical. And I thought, I want to know what it’s going to feel like. I want to know what it’s like, you know, and I knew better than.

Go tracing things on the internet because you see things you don’t ever want to see. And so so I started writing actually, it was incredible therapy for me, but it was, I started out just as a way to inform friends and family. Instead of calling everybody, can’t go to the doctor tomorrow, you know, whatever.

But my writing turned into way more than, than just I’m going to the doctor tomorrow. It was what I was going through. And there are so many choices you have to make, like, one of the choices is I had the choice. I [00:20:00] had to have a mastectomy, but to take off one side or both. And I didn’t know. I mean, how do you know what to do?

I’ve never been through this before. I didn’t know what the right answer was. And we were sitting around the table, a dinner table one night and talking about it. And I said, I don’t, I’m not sure what I’m going to do. I’ve got to make a decision. And one of my son said, mom, Would you get new siding on just half the house?

And I went alcohol. Good point you’re right. Yeah, we’ll go for, we’ll go for two here. So anyway, so like I was writing, continued to write my, my husband started having stomach issues. And so it was early September that I was diagnosed that I got the phone call and then the end of September, his stomach was hurting.

He went to the doctor and they said, take some Rolaids it’s because your wife has cancer, you know, whatever. You’re just nervous. And then November, he went back again because it wasn’t getting any better. And they told him the same thing, gave him [00:21:00] an appointment for a gastro guy. And the day that his appointment was not until January, it took forever to get into somebody.

But the next day I was having a complete hysterectomy and so at a colonoscopy. So I was doing a clean-out the day that he went in. So I wasn’t going to. Farther than five feet from my bathroom. And so he went by himself and I was the mouth. So I would have asked a hundred questions. He just went and didn’t really ask questions and they did nothing.

They basically told him the same thing. It’s just, you’re just nervous. You don’t take some, Rolaids take some Tums, whatever. And I was so mad, but I couldn’t really do anything about it. When he came home and told me, you know, whatever, and then the next day I had surgery and so week out of surgery and they found bladder cancer too, during my surgery, whatever.

But anyways, so I was still healing and I [00:22:00] woke up in the morning. And he was sitting up in bed and did not look good. And he said, guy, my stomach, it kept me up. I just couldn’t sleep. And I said, that’s it go to the ER, because they’ll do something, you know, at least they’ll do something. The doctors are doing nothing.

At least I’ll run a test, they’ll do something. So he drove himself to the emergency room. And my husband was a rule follower. So it said no cell phones in the emergency room. So his cell phone was off. So I’m waiting and waiting and waiting for him to call me. And as I’m still in pajamas watching reruns of Grey’s anatomy or something, you know?

And so he finally, he called and he said, Well, I guess they’re going to keep me off or night. And I’m like, keep you overnight. They don’t keep anybody overnight. Like, what are you talking about? Keep you overnight. And so I threw on like human clothing and ran out the door. And in my Vicodin ado, state drove like a bat outta [00:23:00] hell, down the highway to get to the hospital to find out what was going on.

And shortly before I got there, my phone rang again and he said I guess there’s a spot on my liver. I just started bawling. I could barely see to drive and I don’t even remember parking. I just remember running in holding body parts because I had surgery after surgery and I was in pain, but I was, I went running through the door and they told me where he was and he was behind a curtain and I whipped back the curtain and he’s just sitting on the edge of the bed.

Like nothing is going on is I am balling, I’m sobbing. And, and he said I’m not going to invite you places anymore. If this is the way you’re going to behave. And I said, wait a minute, you are not allowed to be funny right now. So it took us a couple of days. He spent a few more days in the hospital and they did some biopsies and a colonoscopy.

They did whatever. And so it took [00:24:00] a few days for us to get a diagnosis. And I, I was fighting the doctors every step of the way they, they came in and said that his blood work, that they never saw levels like that. There’s some, there’s some cancer markers that they, they can tell on your, in your blood. And and the doctor came in and said he never saw the numbers like that.

Never that high, never that high. And, and I’m like, well, then the lab screwed up re rewrite. When he said, no, no, no mistake with the lab. I said, really, your lab never makes a mistake. They must’ve made a mistake. You know, they, they act love if you’ve never seen numbers like this. And he’s like, Nope, Nope, whatever.

Anyway, I fought it and fought it, but you know, not that my fighting did any good of course, but so then when we got his diagnosis, I was actually back in the hospital again, because I was doing too much, I think, out of surgery and ended up with a bad kidney infection. And so he’s [00:25:00] being released as I’m being admitted and it was just a mess.

And but then we got his diagnosis and of pancreatic cancer. And that is just the worst kind. I mean, you know, with. Breast cancer has come a long way. You know, there’s different kinds of breast cancer, but it sure has come a long way, you know, but pancreatic cancer just hasn’t like, there just isn’t a cure.

And so we knew what that meant. And so we just. Started praying, man, you know, some miracle give us a miracle, like like the lame and the blind and the deaf got, you know, back in Jesus days and or the greatest miracle of heaven, but don’t let them suffer was our prayer. And we had a great time together actually.

 Funny [00:26:00] as that may sound, we watched cash cab every day and we just enjoyed being together and spent the whole time together thinking that he had a year, they were saying probably a year. And six weeks, six weeks later, he all the whole six weeks were, were really pretty good. He, he wasn’t in.

And our prayer was being answered. And then but the last couple hours of his life, he was miserable. And he I called hospice to come and help with more meds or, you know, whatever to get them comfortable again. And I was holding him. He was sitting on the edge of the bed because it hurt to lay down and I was just holding him from behind.

And I just felt his pain, just the agony, absolute agony that he was in at that time. And, and I just whispered in his ear as a baby, just go. And he did. That was it. He took his last [00:27:00] breath and, and that was, that was it. And it was crushing, because I was still in love with him. And after all those years, we were married a month shy of 29 years.

That was 47 years old. And I expected to be that couple rocking on the porch, drinking lemonade, you know, too old to do anything else. And we were going to grow old together. And so it was quite a shock loose him because it wasn’t just losing him. It was losing the dream of our future. We had just become empty-nesters and we’re so looking forward to that, and I don’t know why if you get to run around and make it, or I don’t know what it is about that, but we were so looking forward to that, and finally it happened for us.

And I believe in [00:28:00] an afterlife, I believe in heaven. And my husband was. An amazing guy who was faithful and true and a great friend of people, an incredible boss people who had great respect for him, he was generous and kind. And so I’ve never begrudged him. I’ve never like been angry at him for dying.

Like I’m happy for him. Like at 51 years old to never pay a bill again, you know, or have to worry about illness or anything. Go him. Like he did it, he ran the race and finished strong and, and I miss him like crazy. If he walks through the door right now, I’d be the happiest person on earth. But I know it’s not going to happen.

And so I still had to deal with my stuff. You know, I had to deal with, with my cancer still, and I had to deal with life [00:29:00] now without the love of my life. And. Wasn’t sure what life was going to bring. And, but I was sure one thing, I was not gonna stay in the grief. I wasn’t gonna let that bring me down.

I’ve known people that stay there. You know what I mean? Do you know people like that, that they lose somebody and they just kind of can’t overcome it. They, they don’t see a way out of it. And I was determined that, that I, I know there were things that happened that I wouldn’t choose. I wouldn’t choose to have cancer.

I wouldn’t choose to lose my husband and I wouldn’t choose for him to have cancer, but the choices that I can make are how I’m going to live now. And I can choose to be joyful. And I can choose to embrace life and enjoy it and, and I can choose to be happy. And [00:30:00] though, so those are the choices I decided I would make.

De’Vannon: Well to answer your question. Yes. I do know people who tend to get stuck in grief particularly over the death of people with. You know, it’s perspective and our value system, you know, well, one thing you have in your favor is that you have an understanding of the life to come in the world to come.

Usually when people die, they don’t actually see still exist, you know, and, and we get people coming back to visit us in dreams and all sorts of stuff who have passed on. And this is evidence of what I’m telling you. You know, our more permanent form is our spirit form anyway. So when we die, we really become our truest selves.

At that point, you know, we here on the earth are actually not yet at our highest state of evolution. So when people, and I’m seeing people cry and fall all over the casket at funerals and everything is all very dramatic, you know, what, what, what, what I feel like people really cry [00:31:00] for it. Death is the fact of.

Whatever this person brought to their lives. You know, there are people who are crying over what that person can do for them anymore. Whether it’s not bringing them, whether they’re bringing them some sort of comfort or whatever, you know, oh my God, this person has gone. How am I going to move on? We’ll see.

That’s really all about you. You know, from there, from the dead person’s perspective, they’re like peace out, you know, hell yeah. You know, I get the rest now. So I don’t cry for the dad anymore because I was, I was at the hospital when my pastor died and she was like a mother to me. And that’s what changed my perspective on it because she was like, okay, Yep.

Yeah. She’s 80 years old. She’s like Bundy getting my wings. I’m not leaving this hospital, but y’all y’all are then it was just me, her and her husband was sleeping on the couch and I had served them as like their alter bore and assistant throughout high school. And so I w I went to the hospital that night.

I wasn’t expecting her to die. You know, it was like, okay, she’ll get a miracle, you know, really [00:32:00] powerful prophetess, you know, religious woman and everything like that. I’m like, you know, very clever way and everything, you know, she can’t die, you know? So she just had me like, call like one of her daughters and, you know, her daughter that lived in Texas.

 And, you know, and then everything is kind of like when, you know, went from there and then she did die. And I’m like, you know, I heard that last, like some call it like a death, how that lasts like gas. Life, you know, the part from her, but she was so happy. She wasn’t regretting anything to you. Like I’m not in any pain.

I feel totally great. Life’s been great. Bye. 

Kim: Yeah. 

De’Vannon: You had like the best attitude ever. So, and then I cried because okay. I was okay. I was just been with somebody, they die. This is a first. And so but now I was like, you know what? She was really happy about this whole death thing. Old, what the fuck am I crying for?

Kim: Yeah, [00:33:00] right. I mean, yeah. I, I think you’re absolutely, you’re hitting the nail on the head. I mean, we do, we, we mourn for ourselves, right. I cried for?

them and we, they got it made, you know, we’re the ones. In fact, during the time during that six weeks with my husband, there were times I would just start crying because I just couldn’t help it.

And, you know, try to be all tough for him, whatever. And I just started crying and he just would me and hold me. And he’d say, don’t cry for me. Cry for me, cry for you. But don’t cry for me. 

De’Vannon: He told you, right. And he had a good mind. He’s like a very wise Sage. And look, I get that kids are going to die and stuff like that. And it really rips my heart apart when, when marriage is in ended because of the death of a child, I’ve never been in that situation only once in my life have I heard heard it said where a couple lost the kid.

And they were like, you know what, we’re thankful for the time God gave us what that kid made, the kid [00:34:00] was 17, but, and then they move it on. Not saying it was just that either. I don’t know if they went to counseling or whatever, but you know, it’s about perspective even in the death of like a kid, you know, that kid belongs to God first, before it does to the, before that he, before that individual does to the parents.

And so. You know, we can have a plan for our child, but God might have other plans. And so we gotta be willing to let those plans go, you know, you know, shit, something in, and you know, sometimes we’re just too married to how we think someone else’s life is supposed to go supposed to end or even our own, you know, but they’re there in lies the differences between somebody who has surrender to God and who not, you know, so 

Kim: Right. 

De’Vannon: it’s easier to deal with the bad things in life.

If you understand it all, doesn’t have to go in whatever sort of way that you’ve already processed it in your head. Like it’s going to be. And so. You mentioned [00:35:00] that they left your cancer diagnosis on a voicemail. So they left my, my doctors left my HIV diagnosis on a voicemail. It was a Saturday night, new year’s Eve and much the same way, like man, really on a Saturday night, new year’s Eve, you couldn’t have would’ve fucking waited until like Monday on like on the second, you know,

Kim: Oh, my word 

De’Vannon: So let me say to doctors in medical professions out there, just because we may or may not sign some shit that says you can leave voicemails.

We mean, we still need you to exercise some modicum of discretion about what you choose to. It doesn’t mean you’re just billing everything on there. We like to hear good shit, good test results, appointment reminders. If it’s a life altering diagnosis, even though we may have given you permission, just because you can doesn’t mean you should.

We would very much like you to bring us into the office and tell us if we have HIV cancer or something else, do not leave it on a voicemail and not on a Friday or Saturday night when we’re trying to enjoy our [00:36:00] damn wine.

Kim: Yeah, new year, happy new year. Oh, my word. I think too, like with the medical profession, like they have to deliver news like that. So often that maybe they just become a little, yeah. A little callous. Right. And so they’re not necessarily paying attention to the calendar or time of day or you know how they’re doing It but man, if it’s something that two days or three days, isn’t going to make a difference in your life, you know, health wise wait the two or three days for goodness sake.

Yeah. Yeah. That’s crazy.

De’Vannon: It matters how we deliver bad news to people. And I didn’t learn this or know it until I got that voicemail. It just does like the setting, the atmosphere, you know, I never talked to a psychologist, smart doctors bring a person. And even in the case of cancer, I would imagine you want to have the mental health staff.

You want to have everybody [00:37:00] right there in the room, so that that person doesn’t run out and go do something to hurt themselves. You know, something like that, you know, cause you never know what a per house person might react. And by leaving a voicemail, you Rob with the patient of the luxuries, I’m not even the luxury of the bare minimum necessities of having all the care there or at least set the appointments before they leave.

I never talked to a doctor about it again, really. I never went to a, a mental health. I decided that I was going to die. And so then I became homeless and then I started getting arrested and everything. And so, you know, I had the wrong perception of what HIV was, but I wasn’t in a doctor’s office to get any education.

And they told me the word infectious disease. And I was like, fuck, I don’t want to go talk to those people. It sounds disgusting. So I was freaked out by the name of everything and I just ran. I ran ran from it.

Kim: I, I can’t say as I blame you, I mean, you know, HIV is certainly things have [00:38:00] changed a lot over the years, right? As far as medications, treatments and whatever, but there was a time, not that long ago that that was a death sentence. And I would think that’s the first thing that’s going to come to your mind is, oh my gosh, it.

HIV I’m going to die.

Is that what you thought? Like, is that what you were thinking?

De’Vannon: It did, because at that time in Houston, when I was living in Houston, Texas, I would walk into like a gay bar and be like, Hey, where’s Timmy or whatever. And they’d be like, oh, he died. He had aids or another fellow drug dealer of mine die from aids. Someone when I was growing up, when I was younger, died from aids, everyone I knew had died from aids.

And so it doesn’t matter how far the medication has come and the science has come and how well something can be treated if somebody doesn’t know that that is just like, well, they don’t know that. So, and so if you, and I didn’t know that. And I didn’t know anyone living a healthy life that I was good friends with.

You know, [00:39:00] I might’ve talked to at many, met a guy on a hookup app that may have had HIV, but having sex with somebody and being okay that they’re HIV positive is not really, they didn’t really give me insight into exactly how they were living it. And I pushed that out of my mind because I just wanted Dick.

And so I, didn’t never, I didn’t look at that as an opportunity to explore how one could live healthily with the virus, because I was just horny and trying to fuck, you know, so I let an opportunity pass me by, but you know, I have a different perspective about things now. I want you to you’ve mentioned that the mammogram was like turning like the breast and into if the pancakes and that it’s a painful experience that, you know, a woman isn’t probably gonna look forward to.

What, what can you, what can you tell me about this machine and what it, what it does, but I’m trying to imagine the sort of torture device that you see.

Kim: It’s exactly what it is. You you like, you put your arm [00:40:00] up and try to get as close into the machine as you possibly can. And then it literally squishes you from the top and bound me, you know, like turn a knob or something and it goes farther and farther, farther, and it. Wishes you in there. It is painful.

And I I don’t know if it’s better, if you’re big busted or small breasted, I don’t know what the difference would be. I’ve always known Ben well, in doubt. And so I, I had a lot to squished and it hurts. I mean, it, it, other women, maybe we’re fortunate enough to have different experiences than I did, but any mammogram I ever had her like, crazy, like that was one of the blessings of may having a double mastectomy is I would never have to have another mammogram and I’m okay with that.

But cause there’s gotta be some silver lining. Right. But yeah, it just, it just goes squishes. Yeah. And yeah, that hurts. [00:41:00]

De’Vannon: Damn. I wish I wish I thought you were telling me like what the blood work that they can detect, you know, there’s cancer markers, but I wish that y’all could just get blood work done instead, but clearly that’s not the case. Otherwise they wouldn’t be making you go through the mammogram. So gosh, girls, I, I have the utmost respect for women, you know, from the, from having studied the the period, the menstrual cycles during the massage therapy, which.

I’m telling you become a massage therapist, you have to learn so much, so much about the anatomy, things that in the body you’ll never touch. And so just learning about how y’all’s bodies change when you’re trying to bear a child and everything like that and everything that’s going on, you know, in the different, or, or Oregon’s in the different anatomical structure of a female, you know, I have so much respect for women.

You know, y’all are, y’all are strong, you know, mentally and physically and everything like [00:42:00]that. And in my opinion, quite unbreakable.

Kim: Ah, I love that. I agree. I think women, we have to be strong and I think we need to support each other more than what we do sometimes. Like there should be a sisterhood, you know, like we should be supportive of each other and, and aren’t always, you know, we can be, sometimes we can be the worst enemies and it shouldn’t be like that.

Like, There should be this strong bond between us. Cause we, we do have to put up with a lot. So then what happens is we put up with a sense from the time we were 10, 11, 12 years old, right. We have to deal with, with periods and cramps and pain. And then childbirth is no joyful moment. You know, it’s nice.

You get a baby at the end, but but it’s hard, you know, and painful and pregnancy can be tough and all of that. And so then later in life, when men, you have to get up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom more often because of [00:43:00] prostate issues, it’s sort of payback in a way. It’s like, oh, the one thing that the money I have to deal with kind of my, yeah, 

De’Vannon: Well boys, boys with better mind what energy we send out there, because it’s going to come back to us later on. 

Kim: that’s right. 

De’Vannon: So I played women, great respect. I identify more women than I do men, nothing against men. I mean, I like to go both ways and all the different ways that I can in the world sexually speaking, and, you know, spiritually speaking and energetically speaking for them to feel like a man to another, feel like a woman I’m not confused.

I just want it all. And

Kim: know, you know, the beauty of that is that I really believe that God created people to be who they are. And there are so many people out there that don’t feel like they can live their authentic self, their real self, right. Because of things that they were taught growing up, or a lot of times churches doing so.

much damage to [00:44:00] people saying, oh gosh, you can’t be like that.

Like my daughter had probably, I don’t know if I should be saying this on the radio, but it’s okay. But my daughter married a man. And she got pregnant on her honeymoon and when she was in the hospital delivering. He told her he was gay and wanted out of the marriage. And, but he grew up in the super strict Baptist home where you’re not allowed to be gay.

You know that that’s a sin. Well, not all that creates you. How God creates you. You be who you are. Like there’s beauty in that there’s beauty in the diversity, right? People should just be allowed to be who they are without judgment or condemnation. Just be who God created you to be. 

De’Vannon: Fuck. When I was in California, I went through this phase where I was trying to pray the gay away, and there is a documentary and I I’ve been keeping this in my show notes for. Shit since it came out. So it’s been a running thing [00:45:00] that I’ve had in my show notes for quite some time, it’s called pray away.

There’s a documentary on Netflix about the old exited Exodus conversion therapy movement. The people who used to run that who supposedly got converted and were ungay and told everybody else has changed their ways, which resulted in suicides and deaths. Well, now they’re still gay and they’ve come back to spill all the tea about the Exodus movement and how bullshit conversion therapy really.

And so I do recommend that, that, that fucking documentary to everybody, it is some tea being spill, pour your wine, get your favorite beverage out, roll you up a blunt, whatever it is that you do, because that shit is to piss you off. But it’s real. But I went through that too. I got me a girlfriend. I hung out with straight guys.

 I tried to fast and pray as Jesus to make me ungay and it didn’t work. And I dated this girl for six months and ultimately I ended up just breaking her heart because the shit wasn’t real, you know? And so where did I ever learn that something was wrong with me from the church? You know, God never [00:46:00] told me that, you know, it, look, y’all not every preacher is preaching.

The truth is that we’ve got to get past this believing this, that somebody is on a pool pit or on television or in a suit up on a platform like they know better than, than, than you do. They don’t 

Kim: Right. Exactly. Yeah. That, that, and and that is not the church, you know, it’s churches that hurt people. God’s not hurting. Right. And so sometimes people get angry about what they’ve been taught in church, and then they realize that they’ve been taught wrong, or the church that they went to can be so harsh or, you know, whatever.

And that’s church’s fault. You know, that that unfortunately reflects on God in some people’s eyes, but it’s not God that God loves that is love. That’s what it says in John, that God is love. Not that he loves, but that he is loved. Like in love, love, doesn’t do that. Love. Doesn’t [00:47:00] make people fit into some box because people are more comfortable with it loved to let you be who you are love.

Just allows you to live your real self and without judgment, without thinking that you’re better than, or higher than, or no more or whatever. 

De’Vannon: I agree with what you’re saying, Kim, it, and it will take some time for people to accept that sort of truth and then internalize it, you know, because we’re, we believe what we are taught growing up until we come into independent thinking. That’s why I appreciate the mindfulness movement that’s happening right now.

And the, the push for autonomous mental thought. When I got kicked out of Lakewood church in Houston, Texas for not being straight, it caused a rift between me and God. Now I hadn’t been in church. And like I said, serving my past and all of that until I was in high school and went to the military, I always held a volunteer position in church.

They kicked me out and that [00:48:00] stopped me from praying is a, why did that happen? Because I had conflated. The God in the church as to one. And no, that was not, I was not as mature as I thought I was. And I was not as spiritually strong as I thought I was because had that happened. I should’ve just said, okay, well fuck this church, but not fuck the God.

And I just said, fuck everything you see. And so, but now I would never do that because now I finally get, as I’m almost 40 years old, you know, that there’s a difference in between the physical church and God himself. And the two should never church, as I say, a church is nothing more than an accessory to your spiritual walk, your most valuable time to be your alone time with God, so that when these pastors show up in their fucking scandals and when they do dumb shit, like kick us out for not being straight and the, in the straight people see them, see their friends getting abused by churches for not being straight.

You know, we can still keep our relationship with God. So Jerry [00:49:00] Falwell, Jr. Did you see his latest bullshit? You know, after all of his shit, he finally came out in an article and said that he, that it was all a ruse, him running the that fucking seminary that his dad created and trying to do all that.

He said, it’s all a lie. He wasn’t ever about all that. He wants to just, you know, do him. And that is not who he is. He ain’t about all this Jesus stuff. So finally just fucking admitted it, bitch. Should we knew that because you know, when he had to address the pool boy scandal, you got, you got the pool boys running around and you got your, your pants unzip.

And while you taking selfies with a bitch, that’s not your fucking wife. We knew. So that whole message was to his brain fucked church followers and his evangelicals and everything like that. Like boy, and by we already knew.

Kim: Yeah.

but knowing, and then somebody admitting meeting two things, right? Like it can be hard when you’re, when you’re in the [00:50:00] spotlight and, you know, I think it can be easy for people to get wrapped up in ego. And I mean, how many people we’ve seen fall and it, and it can, the higher you build your pedestal the longer the fall is down.

And it’s sad to see. It’s sad to see for sure. 

De’Vannon: His pedestal was fake though. But what you said is what he said. He was like, it was so much pressure to live up to this expectation of his dad, but you know, or he could have said, you know what, dad, fuck you. This is not who I am. I’m going to go have my pants up and on cruise ships and fucking pool boys.

That’s what I want to do. Okay. That’s what you want to do, Jerry. Then go have your three ways and bring whatever, you know, we always have a choice. And so the let’s make sure our pedestal is built on truth and not on a lie.

Kim: Yeah, for sure. For sure. 

De’Vannon: So, [00:51:00] so, so we’re going to close to the end of our hour here. We’re definitely going to have you back on because you wrote two books one’s called love is, and the other one’s called cry and tell you lab. And we haven’t had time to get into them at a feeling this would happen because you have so much substance going on with you.

And sometimes I might have to have someone back on my show two or three or four times or whatever the case may be. And if that’s the case, you know what, so be it then. But I want to talk about Haiti a little bit because God bless that nation. You know, they’ve been through so much. And I really want to shine a spotlight on, on Haitian people.

I really, really do. And it seems like you have a strong heart for Haiti, and I love how then I was reading your book. You went there for the first time in the year 2000, and you were like talking about the poverty and the, the, the, the rank air and everything. And you it’s like, you were fighting, falling in love with it, but nevertheless, here you are.

And you’re still in love with it. Sometimes in life. I’ve had that experience where my [00:52:00] first brush with something I’m like, I feel indifferent for it, or like I’m propelled by it. And really at the end of the day, I was falling in love with it. And I was like some of my favorite things, things that I hated at first, I find love now more than anything else.

And I read that in the story. So the hate has been through so much. And when they had that last earthquake, a relative in my family said some stupid fucking shit like this. He was like, okay, just because of all that witchcraft they have down there, this is why this punishment has come upon them. And which I responded to his ignorance just a little bit.

I was like, I’d probably say, it’s something like, if you’re not going to pray about them or speak something positive, then shut the fuck up because you don’t know what the fuck they’re doing. You know, he’s never been Haiti. You know, he doesn’t have, he’s drawing all these conclusions from a distance yet.

We’ll speak about it as if it’s fact. And so that shit pisses me off. And so [00:53:00] you’ve lived among the people. And so you have every right to have written the things that you have written. So I want you to

tell, to speak to me about your joy and your love for Haiti. And then I want to talk about the voodoo before we, before we wrap up, and then we’re going to talk about the book in depth. The next time I have you back on and we’re in really, really, really talk about Haiti alive.

Kim: Yeah, I do. I love, I love Haiti. You know, people are people all over the world and we tend to put labels on people, right? Republican, Democrat, Bexar anti-vaxxer Haitia and America, and, you know, whatever, we, we put labels on people, but people aren’t, their labels. You know, a person is not a label that we all have our names.

We’re all individuals. We all have our names and people are people all over the world. Haitian. [00:54:00] People, unfortunately, that are living in Haiti. You know, it’s the poorest country in the Western hemisphere. The average Haitian eats three meals a week. Most do not have clean water. So they’ve got water that makes them sick.

They had an earthquake in 2010 that killed over 200,000 people. And then the UN police that are there are supposed to be peacekeepers there. They end up putting their latrines way too close to the river, which is a source of water for people. They bathe in it, they wash their clothes in it, like it it’s life to them.

And because their latrines were too close, they introduced cholera into the country, Colorado that had, hadn’t been in the country for a hundred years now, cholera’s back in Haley and lots of people, thousands of people have died because of cholera because of the UN police. And it’s it’s. It is it’s kind of thing after thinking of, to saying.

Haiti is wonderful, wonderful, [00:55:00] incredible, loving people that are living in really tough conditions is really what it comes down to. And I think there’s a misconception, like in some people’s minds, poverty and laziness go together and poverty and laziness have nothing to do with each other. There, they shouldn’t even be in the same sentence.

What, what people in Haiti lack is opportunity. There are no jobs. We’ve done so much damage to Haiti. The world bank has done a lot of damage to Haiti. Other countries have done the understand Haiti because people make money on poverty. And so it’s two people in this world’s advantage financially, take heap people down and keep them living in poverty, which is.

 The biggest crime of all probably. Right. And so it’s not a lack of intelligence. It’s not a lack of [00:56:00] work ethic. It’s that keeps them in poverty. It is it is lack of opportunity. It is lack of opportunity. I don’t know, a lazy Haitian I’m sure. You know, like anything else there’s going to be lazy people, but I don’t know any people that I know work hard and, and take opportunities to work when, when the opportunity is there.

It’s just not always, there is the problem. And voodoo, I think is so misunderstood. You know, w we, if we break a mirror at seven years of bad luck, or, you know, a black cat crosses your path or Friday the 13th, or don’t walk under a ladder, like we have our own superstitions. Right. And they’re just sort of cultural superstitions within our country.

And We have movies based on our cultural superstitions. Well, voodoo there’s cultural voodoo. It’s not all just on a [00:57:00] religious voodoo there’s cultural voodoo. And so some of the beliefs, some of the, you know, things like if you pick up a baby from behind that baby is not going to grow to haul, you know, some things like that, that we’d go, what are they talking about? Well, they go, what are you talking about? You can’t walk under a ladder, right? You can open an umbrella inside. You know, I mean, each culture probably has their own set of those kinds of things, but people love Jesus and have voodoo in their life at the same time. And one does not have to exclude the other because voodoo, I think people think of zombies or they think of, of animal sacrifice or human sacrifice, whole.

Buddha is so much more than that. There are so few doctors and so little healthcare in the entire country that there are Buddha doctors and you don’t just become one. You know, your dad was one. So your one, your grandpa, your great grandpa, and it [00:58:00] is herbal remedies and different ways to handle health issues.

That’s what a voodoo doctor does. It’s not about curses and whatever. It’s about, you know, they’re in a community, there’s no healthcare anywhere that you can walk to that you can get to at all. So there’s a doctor basically in the community and there are some I’m sure, very valuable things we could probably learn from them with natural remedies. like you were talking about Blackwood for sure earlier, right? And that’s Buddha, they’re a voodoo doctor, but they’re not. Skin and animals, you know what I mean? It’s, there is some of that, certainly some extreme voodoo like there’s extreme, anything else. But I would say, I mean, I don’t know the statistic, but I know a whole lot of people in Haiti and people that I know it’s they’re culturally, there’s voodoo, but they’re not sacrificing [00:59:00] anything.

They’re not, you know, some of the stuff you see in movies or read in books or whatever, that’s not happening. They’re just people living like we’re living in and it’s part of their culture.

De’Vannon: Well, like you said, there’s two sides to everything. You have the extreme size of it and the bad side of it. When I have you go on the next time, we’re going to get more into the vote. And I’m going to talk about the experience that I had when I was in high school, where somebody practiced the negative side of voodoo on me.

Kim: Oh, I can’t wait to hear about it. 

De’Vannon: And because they’re both, they’re both the true, you know, you have a, and then, you know, I have a couple of voodoo stories that I live here in Louisiana and voodoo is a big thing, voodoo who do whatever you want to call it, especially down in new Orleans, you know, it’s serious. We, we actually still have a place called Marie.

Lavos a house of voodoo, which I think is the house she used to live in. And it was soon turned into like a [01:00:00] store in her honor. You can go there and buy candles and voodoo dolls and different sort of magic accessories to do your magic craft with and stuff like that. And I love American horror story.

Season three is about the a, which is the new Orleans. And and there Angela Bassett plays Marie Laveau in in, in American horror story coven is what it’s called. And it’s just very, it’s very entertaining as the kick ass, the way that they portrayed her. But you mentioned two, two things that I wanted to touch on, and then I will let you have our last word.

 You mentioned that poverty and laziness, you know, you’re not overly fond of those two things being coupled together. I wanted to give you a nod on that because the same, the same dumb ass relative who was talking shit about the Haitian people after they suffered the tragedy of the second earthquake than a reason of relatively short amount of time.

 We were driving around one day and somebody was like [01:01:00] homeless and he was all like, oh, I know they just go somewhere. And like in a program, you know, like fix that or whatever. Okay. And I think at this point I had already been homeless before that he said this stupid shit in my presence. And so I agree with you.

It’s not about laziness. It’s about access opportunity. And then I’m going to add to that and say, state of mind, having lived amongst the homeless people and not everybody wants to become homeless, that everybody out there is unhappy. You have people living in mansions who go and fucking kill themselves or other people in the house.

You know, there, there could be chaos, you know, in the richest places, but somebody out there shit. When I was in California to see the homeless people, sleeping, sleeping under the Palm trees in Cal, in Santa Monica, you know, They look fine, you know, just because we see somebody and what we consider to be the greatest state doesn’t mean that they consider themselves to be in a degraded state of that they’re unhappy, or that we need to go run, trying to fix them, or that there’s anything [01:02:00]wrong with them being like that.

And so, but it’s not just because they’re lazy or they don’t want to work. Maybe they’ve had everything before they are. They don’t want the pressures that come with having a successful life. Maybe they just fucking don’t want anyone calling them. They don’t fucking want any appointments. They don’t want any meetings.

They just want to round the street, get high, fuck and just go to fucking sleep.

Kim: So funny that you say that I live, I live not in a huge city. It’s the second biggest city in Michigan grand rapids. And there are home. We have homeless and I know a lot of them, I live right downtown. I know a lot of them by name and I know people that are afraid of homeless people. And it’s like, when was the last time you ever knew of, of somebody getting attacked by a homeless person?

Like that’s not crime that you see in the newspapers? You know, I, the people that. They’re completely harmless. They some people have addictions, some people do have some mental illness. [01:03:00]Some people have whatever issue they have, right? Like every day we live leads us to today. So whatever’s happened in their life.

This is where they are now. And I’d rather be under a Palm tree in California than in cold, cold, Michigan, if I’m going to be living on the streets. So I feel bad for them. Unfortunately, our city does a pretty good job of making sure that there’s hot food every day and places to go inside if it’s really cold.

But there are people, people are people just because they don’t have a house, doesn’t make them less valuable or less, less of anything. There are people, there are people we’re, we’re all the same. We’re all equal. So yeah, I don’t know. I’ve never been afraid of the homeless in our city. I’d walk downtown alone at night and I don’t care.

Because now the man is going to happen. 

De’Vannon: Right because you send that out, that positive vibe out and have that belief. That’s the why that comes to you easily. A lot of [01:04:00] times we create fear and obstacles where there shouldn’t be obstacles, you know? So people look at the homeless person, just like they may look at a black person and go, oh my God, they’re gonna Rob me.

You know, they just will, you know, Karen, go sit your ass down somewhere. It’s it’s not all about you bitch. I, and I’ll add to that. Once you have lost everything here. The struggle to come back up is a motherfucker. It is not easy. You have to have pit bull tenacity or is a word of fun. A fun, funny, fun word.

You said in your book, the UN UN UN I think it was unfair flexibility. 

Kim: Yeah. 

De’Vannon: When you were struggling with the Haitian government, with your nonprofit, which is something we’re going to get into great detail in the in the next episode you had to like be really hung and did Herman too. And you got to build like a Lego set, one block at a time.

You know, you got to get some sort of stabilize a roof over your head, which may be shared housing. Then you got to get some sort [01:05:00] of meal plan worked out. Then you have to, for me, I had to remember how to, I had to start even lower than that. I had to remember how to brush my teeth every day. I had become like animal life I had to, I wasn’t brushing my teeth.

I couldn’t remember the last time I took my nails or anything like that. There was, you know, I was like a beast out there. So I had to remember basic hygiene. You know, then we had to, you know, get into, and I started to doing that when I was in rehab, because I was actually still along enough. So I had to get back to thinking like a human, as opposed to somebody who’s trying to survive and scabbing, and then I can grow up from there.

And it took a long time and it wasn’t a smooth process. So when you’re asking somebody to stop being homeless, you’re asking them to do something that you may yourself not have the strength to do. And then you’re also asking them to abandon the community that they know and the lifestyle that they understand.

So it’s not just like that dumb ass fucking relative of mine said, oh, why don’t they just fix it?[01:06:00]

Kim: kinda like when there was, you know, when Katrina happened and people were saying, why do they live there? They all, they should just all move. Well, they lived there because their family’s there and their neighbors are there and that’s their home. Why would you tell everyone they have to move? I mean, it’s kind of the same thing, right?

It’s like, you know, you’re going to let somebody tell you, you got to move. Probably not. You know, I don’t know it’s, it?

is crazy, but I never thought about that before. That’s so interesting. The, the struggle that it is to get off the street, that’s, that’s real. 

De’Vannon: It’s a lie. Now, you also mentioned that you had saw like companies or the government or something profit off of the poverty of the Haitians. How does that happen?

Kim: Oh my gosh, in so many ways there is a branch of our government that is the, the philanthropic UL branch USA ID. [01:07:00] And there are so many stipulations. If you get, if you get USA ID, grant money to do a project anywhere in the world there are all these strings attached to all these strings attached.

So Most of the time, I don’t know of a time that this isn’t true. You have to like, if you’re going to start a farm in Haiti and you want money, you need to use US-made equipment. You need to bring in us staff, you need to bring in us fertilizer. I don’t know, whatever, but so much of everything has to be purchased in the us.

And so it all kind of goes back to whoever has the strong lobbies and is pulling strings in Washington or, you know, whatever with everything. And so instead of. Saying, Hey, we’re going to go into Haiti and we’re going to start a farm. And all the Asians will work here and we’re buying the equipment in country so that whoever owns the equipment gets money for it.

And, [01:08:00] and whatever else instead, we’re going to come in and do it. Cause some of them were, were smarter and better because we’re American. And so it’s not helping it. Doesn’t always lead to help real help the kind of help that the people in Haiti need. And so, so then if it’s not helping anybody, it’s not elevating anybody out of poverty.

And I don’t, you know, and, and even like the sweatshops right, were where people are making dollars a day, you know, $5 a day for working Tyne hours and in a place where. A gallon of milk is like $5, you know, and a love abroad is way more expensive than you’d pay here. Like the cost of living there for food is a lot higher.

And can you imagine $5 a day? How do you feed a family? How do you live on $5 a day and [01:09:00] work back breaking work, or, you know, making, t-shirts making t-shirts for Walmart so that you and I can go buy 10 t-shirts for $12 instead of paying $12 for two t-shirts. So then they have to keep labor law because we want more, we want to fill our closets more.

I don’t know about you, but I purged my closet fairly regularly and, and send clothes to Goodwill or salvation, army, whatever. And because we want this excess, they. Don’t they higher wages. I mean, there’s, there’s so much, there’s so much I could tell you about it. But it’s sad and it, and it really comes back to us, not standing up and saying, Hey, I don’t really need 12.

T-shirts you know, I can do laundry. Right. I don’t, I don’t need 12. I can get by with three. And so how about paying people [01:10:00] more? But we, we want the good deals. We want to go to Walmart and buy the, buy the good deals and it hurts. It hurts people in countries like Haiti, 

De’Vannon: I’m going to say, thank you for explaining that. So it almost sounds like too, if they don’t want to fix it, cause if they actually ever cure it, the problems and hate it, then I would end it in their source of income. 

Kim: right? 

De’Vannon: Sometimes people in authority know how to do just enough, but not, not actually fix it, but the Lord would deal with them when they, because of the.

Because of how they are because of what’s in their hearts. I want to say the salvation army they have a, they have a history of controversy with anti LGBTQ issues, just like fucking, you know, hobby lobby in certain places like that. So I’m not sure about Goodwill. I haven’t heard anything about them like that yet.

I do know that their prices sometimes are not like as low as I would think that they [01:11:00] should be for something like that. So I find places local that I know have like rock bottom prices is what I was homeless. I did, you know, go to place like this to find clothes and, or, or at least when I was trying to, to come back up, I think I was living back with my parents at the age of 30, you know, when I was in rehab and starting to, you know, go into Goodwills and stuff like that.

 So anyway, this is what I like to make people aware of that. Do your own research into a salvation army and stuff like that. I’m very, I have a, obviously, I don’t know, sensitivity a sore spot towards any organization that might be against my people, but that doesn’t mean everything they do is bad.

Kim: Well, you know, I’m so glad you said that though, because there are so many things that I know I just kind of do in life and, and have not really investigated or, or just do it because that’s the way I’ve been doing it, I think. Right. But you’re absolutely Right?

I mean, you want to be given to places [01:12:00] that you believe in, you want to not support people that, that are not supporting you.

And so thank you for that. I’m glad that you mentioned it because we should think about everything we do. 

De’Vannon: Yeah. Having our minds in the whole, the whole lot of it, and we don’t support Chick-fil-A because they are so anti LGBTQ a. Funny. And so so I’ll go ahead and let you have a last word. Then I’d like you to included a message to widows, but other than that, you can say whatever it is that you want to say,

Kim: Okay. All right. So widows. Yeah. You know, we’re a people group, right? I mean, the Bible talks about the purest form of religion is to help widows and orphans in their time of need. And I think we forget that because we think of, of widows as the widows back then that. That whatever their husband dies.

Now [01:13:00] they have no income. Well, widows here are in the same boat. Their husband dies and maybe they’ve put their career on hold they’ve whatever. Now, now their house that they live in, they can no longer afford. The kids have been going to school and the school, and they can no longer afford it. Like there are people that we should be looking out for.

Like, you know, if you have somebody in your neighborhood that has lost her husband, reach out, reach out, you know, it’s not the same for men, you know, there’s widows and there’s widowers. And I’m speaking to widows to the women. I’m speaking of the women and reach out, reach out. But ladies, we need us sticking this thing together.

We need to have the bond, have the bond. And I, and I would just say that Yeah, one thing I learned about love because I did this thing where I just dedicated a full year to figuring out love, took me longer than a year actually. And one thing that I figured out [01:14:00] is that everybody’s where they’re at.

Right. And, and we don’t change people. Like, I don’t know if you’ve had a conversation lately where. You are on one end politically, and you’re talking to somebody on the other end politically and they go, oh yeah, you’re right. Oh yeah, no, I see. I mean, that doesn’t happen. Right. And yeah. So, so to keep things as, as a conversation, instead of a confrontation and listen to people, listen to their words instead of, you know, having preconceived notions of what people believe or what people think, but find out who people are.

And at the same time, realize that you’re only responsible for yourself. You’re not going to change anybody. And so the best way to live is just to love people. Love people, let people be who they are. Don’t condemn people and don’t judge. I mean, there’s such freedom in that to think that I’m not going to be there, there’s going to be some line and I’m going to go, you’re in, you’re in, you’re out.

You’re out, [01:15:00] right? That’s not, we’re not judging jury. Our only job. Really, the only thing we’re told to do is love each other. That’s all we need to do. And it’s so freeing just to do that. Let people be who they are and just show the love and love. Love is what the world needs now and love is what’s going to change the world.

De’Vannon: And what the world needs now love sweet love on Warrick. I think,

Kim: What’s that? 

De’Vannon: I think that was Dione Warrick who sang that 

Kim: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yep, yep, yep. Yep. I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And all you need is love by the Beatles. That’s a good one too. 

De’Vannon: Somebody. Yeah. I’m going to look at both of those songs and include them in the show notes. That way people can have a little bit of love of music, brings us all together, so,

Kim: I actually, [01:16:00] I got a, some wristbands coming in. They should be in any day now that are WWLD

De’Vannon: What would love do.

Kim: yeah, because Jesus is different to everybody. Right? so, people could answer that question differently. What would this do? But love is universal. So if we judged everything we did in the name of love and the things we said, if we thought to ourselves, What would love to do.

that is a great guy.

Right. So anyway, so if you I’ll send you WWLD bracelet. 

De’Vannon: That’s pretty fucking clever. I love that shit right there. Hell yeah. I’ll wear a WWLD but I don’t do the WWJD because of the way it’s done. I just don’t like the energy and the spirit behind it and that everything that has the name of Jesus on it isn’t necessarily something he would agree with.

Kim: Right? Well, I’ve got some coming in there rainbow. 

De’Vannon: Ooh.

Kim: know. So [01:17:00] yeah. You’ll have to give me your address. I can send you some, 

De’Vannon: Fuck. Yeah. Okay. So in the next episode that I’m going to do with Kim, we’re going to get deeper into Haiti. She’s going to tell us about how she got chased by a motorcycle gang, how she slept on the ground were snakes into ranches. Rome. You’re going to get deeper into voodoo because I really, really that really voodoo is more around us.

And what we think at the end of my memoir, I have a standalone story is about 10 pages about the, the, about me having witchcraft performed on me. It’s such an impactful story that didn’t fit into the regular storyline because it’s so unreal. Like I wouldn’t even believe it if I, if I hadn’t lived through it myself.

So I want to spend some, some, some more time on Buddha and we’re going to talk about overcoming government obstacles when you’re trying to do good work. Her, your nonprofit is raised of hope international, and we’re going to talk more about. That and a bunch of other stuff. And we’re going to take a deeper look into the book.

[01:18:00] Love is going to talk about how love is patient love is kind and love forgives and all of those different things. So thank you so much for coming on the show today, Kim, I’ve had so much fucking fun with you. I feel like I know you, I’ve known you all my life, even 

Kim: feel the same. I wish you lived next door. We could go have coffee or a glass of scotch or wine or something. 

De’Vannon: all, all of it, except for the coffee, I might could have a drop of decaf every now and then I have such a low tolerance for caffeine 

Kim: I don’t, I don’t do caffeine either, so yeah, 

De’Vannon: but I like the fleets and the coffee shops. So,

all right, girl, we will talk to you on the next episode. 

Kim: all right. Good. Thank you so much.

De’Vannon: Thank you all so much for taking time to listen to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast. It really means everything to me. Look, if you love the show, you can find more information and resources at [01:19:00] sex, drugs, and jesus.com or wherever you listen to your podcast. Feel free to reach out to me directly at DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com and on Twitter and Facebook as well.

My name is De’Vannon and it’s been wonderful being your host today and just remember that everything is going to be all right.




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