Episode #62: Bad Boys Vs. Good Boys, Breaking Away From Male Stereotypes & Navy Cross-Dressing Tea With Marcus Norman, Host Of The GentleMan Style Podcast


I consider myself a Serial entrepreneur with a multitude of businesses that I invest my time, energy and heart into. I am hailing all the way from the Caribbean, a small island called St. Croix (Pronounced Saint Croix). Additionally, I served 8 years in the United States Navy where I honed and sharpened my skills at a young age while growing into manhood.

A CEO a Real Estate Investment firm and Property Management company based in Virginia. Started an investment firm that seeks to achieve higher returns for its investors, board members and market partners threw traditional markets and alternative markets foreign and domestic. Located primary in the 757 area and growing. Currently manages $330K in assets under management.

I am also. Podcast Host of a show called Gentleman Style Podcast. A show dedicated to the upliftment, encouragement of our men and woman across the globe. We are bringing fresh VIBES🔥 to hot topics surrounding culture, relationships, business, finance, sex, dating, faith and everything in between! Whether you’re into passive income opportunities, trending topics and useful relationship tips, or dynamic guest speakers, there’s something for everyone.

Venturing to the United States where I knew no one and had even less family support I knew I would grow, and I would have it no other way. That’s my story for now… Cheers




INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to):


·      Good Boys Vs. Bad Boys

·      When Do We Really Meet God For The First Time?

·      Do You Really Know Your Pastor?

·      Are You Over-churched? 

·      Navy Cross Dressing Tea

·      Inconsistent Disciplinary Practices In The Military

·      My Take On Covid Vaccinations




Website: https://adobe.ly/3JpwezX

YouTube: https://bit.ly/3bpJ9Fz

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/gentlemansvizion/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gentlemanstylepodcast/

Twitter: https://bit.ly/3bqCdbi

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcus-norman-34564445/

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@gentlemanstylepodcast





Website: https://www.SexDrugsAndJesus.com

YouTube: https://bit.ly/3daTqCM

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SexDrugsAndJesus/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sexdrugsandjesuspodcast/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/TabooTopix

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devannon

Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.es/SexDrugsAndJesus/_saved/

Email: DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com





·      Pray Away Documentary (NETFLIX)


TRAILER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_CqGVfxEs


·      OverviewBible (Jeffrey Kranz)




·      Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed (Documentary)



·      Leaving Hillsong Podcast With Tanya Levin




·      Upwork: https://www.upwork.com

·      FreeUp: https://freeup.net



·      Disabled American Veterans (DAV): https://www.dav.org

·      American Legion: https://www.legion.org


·      What The World Needs Now (Dionne Warwick): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfHAs9cdTqg




·      PodMatch is awesome! This application streamlines the process of finding guests for your show and also helps you find shows to be a guest on. The PodMatch Community is a part of this and that is where you can ask questions and get help from an entire network of people so that you save both money and time on your podcasting journey.







You’re listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to! And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right at the end of the day. My name is De’Vannon and I’ll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world as we dig into topics that are too risqué for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what’s really going on in your life.

There is nothing off the table and we’ve got a lot to talk about. So let’s dive right into this episode.

De’Vannon: Hello, everyone out there. I’m so happy to have you with me again this week. I think you all are beautiful. I think you all are so full of life and I thank you for letting your light shine through in all of the different colors for all the world to see. Now baby, this week I have with me a man by the name of Marcus Norman.

And he is the host of the gentleman style podcast. And today he is here to tell you all about what it means to be a real gentleman. Now, in [00:01:00] this episode, we’re also gonna unwrap what a true encounter with God can look like. We’re gonna dish on them. COVID vaccinations 

and mark is gonna spill some quite tasty Navy cross dressing tea. Yes, honey. Apparently what goes on at sea stays at sea, at least until now. Enjoy the show.

Are you, you delicious people out there in the world. I wanna let you know, I love you and I appreciate the fuck out of you. No matter who you are, what you look like, how big, how little, how skinny, how gay, how straight, how religious, how nonreligious. You know, you’re welcome in this space. We love you all.

I’m reminded of how they used to say in the Pentecostal church growing up though, which I despise the Pentecostal church [00:02:00] now, but when they would have the kids on program and stuff like that, they would always say, you’re welcome. Welcome, welcome. And so everyone is so fucking welcome. And so today I have with me a man by the name of Marcus Norman.

He hosts the gentleman style podcast, God, family finance, self it’s the way that’s broken down in his underscored. So on this show here, we’re gonna talk about his podcast, how he got into podcasting and everything like that. He interviewed me for his show and I thought it was a very cool and he collect the conversation.

So I wanted to bring him on to introduce him to you all and see how he might be of value. How are you doing today, Marcus? I’m 

Marcus: doing well. Thank you for having me on your platform. I’m excited to be here today, and I hope I’m able to deliver some value in, in, in in any way that I can any form shape or way that I can.

So this’ll be fun. Thank you again. 

De’Vannon: Absolutely. So right off the bat, I wanna know why [00:03:00] you name your podcast Genman style and you, you capitalized the M and it’s not, it’s not gen men. Plural it’s gentleman. So it’s spelled G N T L E the M is capitalized style podcast. What’s the history there. 

Marcus: The history is so for me and we, we discussed this on my show but I was never a good gangster I was never a good thug growing up in high school.

I was the, the, the kid that tried to fit in where, where I could get in. And so. And that was kind of the thing. I was always looking. Women were always attracted to the bad boys, right? They were attracted to the thugs, the gangsters, because they wanted to feel whatever safe, protected, whatever the case may be.

That was very, and that was that’s pop culture. Right? Even in rap rap culture, that was predominantly who people sought out to be like to emulate, but no one really wanted to be the smooth char [00:04:00]charismatic, you know, smooth talker, the brother who could, you know, know the various things about life and could speak to the various topics about life.

So I chose gentleman. To try and change the, the, the theme to try and change that, that, that chorus, because we were, they were, I was tired of hearing the same old song and drum beat around, you know, I need a guy, rough run of edges. Well, how about a gentleman? Right. How about a gentleman? Right. And a gentleman to me encompasses several levels.

He encompasses several things, and that’s why you see on my show, I talk about the things money, finance, relationships, sex and all the topics that, that shine a light on things that we should be concerned about. And I left, I wanted it to be broad and I wanted to stay that broad. But a gentleman is someone who can speak to a wide number of.

There’s very few topics that I cannot, that I can hold a discussion [00:05:00] on. Right. There are very few things that, and that’s how I feel. A family man should be a fam. A person in a family should be right. You should be able to talk to, you know, I, I want my children to come to me and ask me, dad, what about this?

Or I want my, my partner to come and ask me about this and, and I can answer it confidently, or I know the sources and references. So yeah, just trying to change the landscape, the trajectory of that mindset to say, Hey, consider a gentleman. If you’re tired of, you know, the narcissist, if you’re tired at a thug, Right.

Consider a gentleman. 

De’Vannon: okay. Well, I will speak as someone who identifies as female from time to time. I went through like a large phase of my life, where I was into that thug trade, bad boy, you know, bad boy. And I was exposed to them for the first time when I was a drug dealer and everything like that.

And [00:06:00] there is There’s a certain sexiness and an edginess about men that are really, really rough around the edges like that. However, looking back, looking back on that now I know that I really wasn’t living my highest self. I wasn’t respecting myself and I didn’t love myself the way that I thought I did when I would, when I was drawn to guys like that, because those guys typically.

You know, they don’t really show love to much other than really themselves, you know, at the end of the day, now this is not to be confused with a very masculine man. That’s different. You know, what, what we’re talking about are guys whose masculinity has not, you know, evolved beyond, you know, rough grittiness and stuff like that in his edginess or his tattoos or the superficial things that the world seems to praise.

You know, every time you turn on [00:07:00] social media there, you know, there’s a guy with a six pack out, you know, and some tattoos or something like that, you know, the shallowness, the shallow side of manhood is what, you know, we’re speaking against today. What Marcus is talking about is an evolved form of masculinity in manhood and things like that, you know?

And so. Those those, those boys, back in those days, they represented danger, risque things, you know, taking risk and being reckless is what they represented. Or I like the way Jean Gray put it in X, I think. Fuck. I can’t remember which one of the Xmen it was, but, you know, Cyclops, the preppy pretty boy was always fighting with Wolverine, the bad boy, right.

Gray and, and one of the, one of the movies, she was like, You know, you take home the, the bad boy you marry the good boy. right, 

Marcus: right, right. The one, the bad boy is the one you don’t bring home to mom and dad. Yeah. But [00:08:00] the, the Cyclops, the gentleman, the, the kind good looking guy, that’s the guy you introduced to mom and dad, but you still got the thug, the bad boy at home.

The one that, you know, keeps you the edge of your seat and keeps life exciting for you. Yeah. You’re so right. 

De’Vannon: But, so in other words, she was saying, you just get a little, you just get some Dick from the bad boy and you actually with a Dick boy. And I agree with her, those bad boys are not really worth much more than Dick cause you can’t set up.

They’re not consistent enough. You know, a lot of them to to, to establish a whole life with. But I have found that the good boys of just as good Dick as the bad boys too, and I’ve had plenty of Dick in my day so much, I could donate that shit to charity.

it actually fucking doesn’t matter. But the way media porn. You know soap, operas, sitcoms, everything makes men look like they have to have a certain image to be like effective in [00:09:00]bed for instance. And that’s not true. I’ve had good Dick from guys who some might consider to be overweight. You know, it just doesn’t, it just isn’t.

It is. I’m just really happy when people evolve beyond that. So

Marcus: We saw a lot of that in, in the, in the last film of Twilight, Twilight, right. Jacob, that was the big thing, Jacob. And what was his name? Jacob? The vampire and the WOL, right? The WOL was the bad boy. He was the edgy, he was the rough.

And then you got. The eclectic vampire, you know, the nice house, the fancy cars, the money, the cult, he was cultured. Yeah. So you even see that even today still. And she was torn between the good boy and the bad boy. So yeah. 

De’Vannon: You about 

Marcus: Edward, Edward? Yeah. Edward and Jacob. That was a whole, I mean, burger king had ’em on their burgers.

Like which team are you? Are you team Jacob or are you team Edward and you and that’s and that division came out again. [00:10:00] It came right back out. It’s like, do you like the bad boy? Or do you like the finer more polished? Man and it was, and she was torn that whole series. She was torn, you know, one minute she’s doing a whole movie with the bad boy and the thug and she’s out with him cuz she’s mad at, at Edward and then she’s back, you know, then the, the, where Wolf will piss her off or she’d find something about their culture.

She didn’t like, and then she’d go right back to. The higher, the higher life so, yeah. It’s it’s I, yeah. Yeah. More evolved. I’ll I’ll choose vampire all day. 

De’Vannon: I know. And their skin turned to diamonds in twilights. I. Money success, fame, glamor to quote, Macaulay Hogan from party boy party, monster. Yeah, I’ll tell you.

I wanna try some diamond Dick shit. that’s all I was thinking about.

Marcus: Be careful. Be careful. They might they [00:11:00] might. Yeah, you have to, you have to be fully committed now you have to be fully committed to the whole thing. You can’t get part of it and then not adopt the whole lifestyle. So you gotta go all. Can’t go out during the day. You can’t, you gonna turn the diamonds yourself.

De’Vannon: I would love to have diamond skin. There was an X-Men like that in Emma Frost. I believe it was. Yeah, you turned in the diamond, so fuck it. Do it. So, so you have some, so your major things are God, family finance, self, which of these is the most prominent. 

Marcus: So the most prominent in my life first and foremost is God and that’s who leads my life.

And that’s who I try to. I don’t always succeed and I don’t always win, but I always try to remind people that we, we need to have a focus, whatever that focus may be. There needs to be something that holds primary above all [00:12:00] else, right? You don’t want to be mixed up and you don’t want to be scattered all over the place.

You don’t want to jump from this, to this, to this, that cause this confusion and that causes IMB bounce, just like your GPS. Right? The, the simplest terms is when you’re going from. California to Georgia. You’re gonna plug in the final destination on your GPS, and then it’s gonna give you the route to get there the fastest route, wherever it may be.

Well, if you don’t know where you’re heading. You’re gonna just be lost. Right. And you’re gonna just stop at every little rest stop. You’re gonna stop at every hotel and you’ll find yourself in a very mixed up place. If you don’t know the direction, you don’t know, what’s your focal point, what’s your focus.

And so that is my focus. That is my focal point. And so that’s who helps me navigate the, the, the life’s many ups and downs, if that makes sense. So God holds primary in my. What, 

De’Vannon: what was your first experience with God? What made, you know, he’s real, [00:13:00]

Marcus: my first experience. And, and that’s a great question. So I grew up with a lot of church.

My grandmother was a Jehovah witness. My grandpa was a seven day Adventist. My father was a Baptist and my mom was a Christian. So I was in church. No matter where I turned growing up. So when I joined the military, I actually rebelled against church and I, I, I was completely churched out. If you, if most people can probably relate to that, they were churched out.

I was, I was, I had, I was in church on Sunday, Wednesday, Saturday, Friday. I mean almost every day, just doing some functions with churches in some capacity. So when I joined the military and I was on my. I rebelled against church. And I thought the church was, was a complete waste of time. I thought it was fake.

I thought it was phony my turning point with God and my realization that he was with me all along was when I finally got out the military and I was jobless and I was unemployed [00:14:00] and I couldn’t find work. And I couldn’t find a job that paid me anything close to what I was making in the. And, you know, for, you know, date, I filed my disability claim.

I filed all the paperwork that I needed to, but that’s not a quick turnaround that takes time. And so I was on the brink of homelessness. I was behind on bills, money car repossessions, all of it bank account overdrawn. My bank account became a black. And so yeah, if any of you have ever experienced that, where you’re checking account, you’re basically putting money in because you, you don’t know when the next automatic draft is gonna come out or you don’t know when the next expense is gonna come out.

And you’re just kind of funneling money in, in hopes to just kind of keep some cash coming in. And so I was really, really low bills were piling up, pass, do everything eviction notices on the. God showed himself to me after a [00:15:00] year of fighting going from dead end job to dead end job, not making enough money to even live.

I had one day I was, I had got a notification. It was an email saying, Hey, your claim has been processed. They were talking about my military disability claim. Didn’t have a date to it. All it said is it had been process. That’s all it said. It didn’t say anything else. And then one day I got up, I was tired, dreamed, crying.

I was, I was, I was burnt out, sat in my car and something said, Marcus, check your bank account. And I looked, and I did a whole episode on this. On my podcast, I did a, I spoke to this at a conference. I looked at my bank account and there was $12,000. In my bank account from the back pay of all the military compensation that they owed to me for an, I had been fighting [00:16:00] homelessness and poverty for an entire year.

And so when that happened, all I could do was break down. I broke down in my car, I cried my head off and I realized he had been with me all. . And so when that happened is when I turned around and I rededicated my life to him because I was able to keep my home. I didn’t lose my home and I was able to catch up on things and my life started to turn around for the better I got a better job.

I was able to get a car again. I was able to, to, to turn my life around because I was obedient to house. Finally obedient to him after ignoring him. This entire time parents do that, right? Our parents do this to us when they’re raising us seemingly right. You, you may love your child, right. And that looks different from parent to parent, but you’re always with them.

You [00:17:00] never, you never really let him leave him stranded. And so he was with me even the entire time, even though I wasn’t making him. He never forte me. He never forgot about me. And he came through when I really needed a breakthrough in my life. And so that was my turning point, my turning point back to him.


De’Vannon: you’re saying that’s your turning point back to him? Mm-hmm so when, when were you initially, you know, I’m, I’m trying to dig and find in like, when was your first encounter? So like for me, My first encounter with God was a dream. And, and in this dream, he, he took on the form of a golden cross that had all kinds of jewels in it.

And this cross was spinning around in this dream and it came and stood before me and it pleaded with me. This was the exact moment when I was called to walk with the Lord into ministry for him when I was about four or five years. [00:18:00] I understand that everybody’s gonna have that sort of moment, but be it a miracle, like what you feel like you received in this financial sphere, a child that was saved or something physical that happened.

But in that moment you felt like you were in his presence, you know? So if, if the VA miracle and believe me, y’all fighting with the VA to get your money is a miracle. You need divine intervention to get money from them, bitches. And so and any veterans, listen, listening, get your pension before you get out.

Just trying to get it from the VA. After you get out is a motherfucker. Get it before you get out. So, so if you’re saying the VA miracle was like your reation. I would say that like, when I got kicked out of Lakewood church in Houston, Texas for not being straight, and then I walked away from God for five, six years or so I had to do a rededication once I got my footing again, because I had stopped talking to God and everything like that because of that Lakewood experience.

So then I [00:19:00] had to rededicate. So the first time God appeared to me was in my dreams that I had to do a rededication after I fucked up. So. So when was the, when was, when was the first, first, first time or was the VA situation? The, the, the truly first time 

Marcus: the, the VA situation was truly my first time, because again, I grew up in church, so church was always, God was always around me and he acted through my parents to keep me safe.

Right. And so I had experienced. God’s love throughout my, my years. Right. But I, I rebelled against it when I finally struck out on my own, but I always knew God. I always, you know, that was kind of the summer thing that my parents would have me do. Read the book, read different passages during the summer.

And then we would talk about it as a family knew God had, did did the works, did the acts, but never knew him for myself. Right until [00:20:00] I had no other choice, but to lean on. Right. And so that’s that, that turnaround experience, which made me realize, okay, it wasn’t my parents who, who gave me a check. It wasn’t a friend or a family that cut me that check the only other person that could have allowed this to happen the day it happened.

Let me explain this to you. The next, in, in a week I had not paid my mortgage. In months, the next week was my last day. I had to be out of my home. The only person that could have made that possible was him. That’s why I knew it was him because there isn’t anybody in this plant that can cut you a 12, well, no one in my circle that can cut me a $12,000 check in a.

So the only other person that I knew it was him was God. And that’s how I knew that. Okay. He’s [00:21:00] real. He was there for me and I really need to turn and give my, my thanks and my praise in. I, I, because again, I didn’t have anybody I could call. I couldn’t call my parents. I couldn’t call mom and dad. I couldn’t call a friend.

I don’t, I never had friends like that in my circle to say, Hey man. And, and that was the other thing, too. When you, when you’re in the military, you seem to have a lot of friends. Because you’re all in the same, you’re all in the same boat or you’re all in the same unit or you’re all in the same division or ship.

Well, as soon as I got out the military, all those seeming friends seem to disappear. I’m calling these guys. They’re like, Hey man, how’s it going? I’m no, I’m not a part of that click anymore. I’m no longer a part of that community when you’re out of this is the part that no one talks about when you’re out of the.

All of friends that you had in the military no longer wanna mess with you, or they’re gonna, they’re gonna PCs or they’re gonna leave in a couple years, and then you’re never gonna, you know, you’re not gonna see ’em again, versus when you PCs in the military, there’s a high probably hood that [00:22:00]you’ll probably bump at shoulders again, because you guys will get deployed to the same place or you’ll take a duty station to the same area and you’ll see that person again, but you’re no longer a part of that click.

So I was friendless as soon as I got out the. So, so, so I, I hope that helps clarify that that was that’s. Yeah, that was my first interaction with God on my own versus growing up with him throughout my life. 

De’Vannon: Good. Thank you for clarifying that, Marcus. One of my greatest prayers that I talk to the Lord all the time, and I ask him to reveal himself individually to people in a way that they’re going to know that it’s him speaking to, to him.

Right now I’m talking about. You know, the Hebrew God I have, you know, because that’s the one I believe in everyone knows I have, you know, Buddhist friends, I don’t care. And I don’t look at people of other religions. Like they’re less than, or like, they’re wrong or like, they’re gonna go to hell.

It’s just simply a different religion. I say it all the time. I [00:23:00] love Buddhist people, especially. I reference them a lot. Cause it’s hard for me to find other ball bitches like me to run around and eat vegetarian food, stuff like that. What I love hanging out at the booth temple, but you know, and I don’t look at them as less than, and they don’t try to make me worship Buddha.

It’s a very, very beautiful relationship I have with them. But I pray, I pray to God to reveal himself to people because I cannot expect people to follow Jesus if he hasn’t made himself real to. And what you’ve just demonstrated into your conversation is that going to church, doesn’t make you close to God, you know, and I, and I tell people all the time, the most important thing about your spiritual walk is the alone time that you have with the Lord and the things that happen to you when you are not at church, you know, It’s like dating anyone else you like your most intimate times are not gonna be when you and your significant other are around other folks, it’s gonna be when you’re not around other [00:24:00] people.

So going to church is not, shouldn’t really be the highlight of your spiritual week. , you know, 

Marcus: true. 

De’Vannon: So people make idols and I’ve done this before. The pinnacle of this was when I was at Joe Stein’s church at, at Lakewood church in Houston, Texas. We worship personalities in churches, the preachers, the worship leaders, the different teachers.

We worship the church building itself, cuz it’s beautiful. We worship the music. And things like that. And we make idols of the church experience. Then we get diluted into thinking that these free fuzzy feelings that we have whenever we’re at these services is God maybe, maybe not, or maybe it’s just a good experience, but we put way too much stock into church into going to church.

Marcus: Yeah, it’s just a building. It’s four walls. There are many people that think their, their, their entire experience is based off of, you know, going to a [00:25:00] physical building, which is why I think the pandemic showed people is the church. And you, who, who are you when you leave these doors? When you walk out of this building, who are you?

There are many people who think it’s a check in a box for them. Yep. I went to church today. I’m doing, I’m doing but how do you live? Right. How, how, who are you on the inside? That’s that, that, that golden rule, your moral compass, who I try to be consistently consistent. I try to be the same person that you see on the podcast, the same person you would meet that would shake hands with you.

Out in town, I, I try to be consistently the same person. There are many people who are phony. I’ve gone to churches where the pastor wants to shake your hand and talk to you about ties and offerings. But when I ask you, Hey, let’s go out to lunch or let’s go out to eat. Well, you’re too busy for. Then then we’re, we’re not of the same mind because if [00:26:00] we truly were for me, then you would make time for what?

For me. And I didn’t want anything. I wasn’t asking him for anything. I just wanted to get to know the man who’s standing on the pulpit, preaching the word of God. But who you are outside and that’s where the, the stigma comes from and, and not stigma, but the actual incidence is where these people, I, I met a pastor for the first time who this man, he, he, he he’s UN he’s, he’s very, he claims to be very traditional, but that’s how you find those pastors who cheat on their wives.

Right. It’s like, who are you? You, you sit here and talk about marriage and you talk to other people about marriage, but then you cheat on your partner. Who are you when you leave this building? It’s completely different and that’s, that’s not okay. And that’s what I strive not to be 

De’Vannon: right in. I’m gonna say this here, that we’re gonna get into your [00:27:00] history of traveling to the United States from St.

Croix. Yes. So, you know, there is something to be said about being over churched. Now I’m not a big proponent of churches at all, but I understand some people when they’re new in their spiritual walk, they may need that community to help them. Form a structure. Just remember y’all that church is a school is a place you go to learn.

Like any other school, there should come a time when you graduate. There’s no reason for you to be pulling a van Wilder and being like a 10 year senior, you know, you’re like, you’re. You know, you’re like, you’re still there at some point you should outgrow the need for somebody else to tell you how to approach God.

And sometimes I’ll hear people say, oh, and I used to be this way. You know, the, I feel the closest to God during worship at church, I feel the closest to God, you know, as soon as I get to that building, you know, that was when I was Imma tour. And I wasn’t mature in my faith. [00:28:00] You should be saying you feel the closest to God when you’re alone and you’re not around anybody else because the days may come where you can’t just freely walk into a church.

The days may come where you can’t come and go as you please. And I’m not talking about cuz you’ve been arrested. Although that may happen too. I hope God forbids, but you don’t know. No, 

Marcus: those days are here. COVID co no one could go to church. 

video1210143879: Yeah. 

De’Vannon: Right. The saddest thing that I heard. About the war in Ukraine.

I was listening to the morning, Joe broadcast over on MSNBC. And there was a lady, a Ukrainian tough as nails. And she was saying like, I’m not afraid to die. I’m just afraid to die before I have a chance to make it to the confession, to, to confess her sins to the priest. And I just thought, you know, how sad for a woman to be so strong and so bold, but to, to, to think that you cannot access, forgive.

For her sins until she goes and talks to a human about it. Mm-hmm this is what I step into throwing shade against the [00:29:00] Catholic church, cuz I think the Catholic church is full of shit from the raping raping of the altar boys and the way they make idols out of the Pope himself on down, nobody has to pray to a human for forgiveness.

Right. So let’s, but if you’re gonna go to church fine, you, you insist upon doing that, but just do it balance. Don’t be over churched, be appropriately churched. So you don’t need to be there every day. Every time the door opens you don’t, you know, and so on and so forth. I don’t much wanna get too heated up on that one.

Cuz like 

Marcus: I know, I know. I remember. Did you dirty? I’m sorry. It’s not cuz they did me 

De’Vannon: dirty it’s because they do other people dirty and I can see how they prey on the minds of people who are vulnerable, shrouded in fear, you know, and everything like that. Cuz they fear if they either don’t go to church, they’re gonna burn up and go to hell.

They feel like they don’t give them money. They’re gonna burn up and go to hell and churches play on that fear. And they cloak it in [00:30:00] righteousness and people don’t know any better until they know better. And so. So. Okay. So you came here from St. Croix. So were you a citizen before you came here? Were you an immigrant?

What’s the situation. I 

Marcus: I saw I was a us citizen St. Croix. My island specifically, and a series of islands are owned by the continental United States. So we’re similar to Guam, right? It’s a territory owned by the us. And so I was a citizen born. And when I came over to the continental United States, I came via the military.

The military was my escape to get off of my island because. I, I, I didn’t like the trajectory of where my island was going. So what do you mean? I didn’t, I didn’t. So the, on a island out, have you ever been to Guam? Mm-hmm so on a island, the community’s very focused and it’s very centered. So there’s only a handful of jobs that pay.

Well [00:31:00] one of the biggest jobs on the island next to a doctor or a lawyer or any of those trade professions was there was a, there was a A factory on the island. That was the highest paid profession on my island. Well, the factory wasn’t doing well, and if you’ve ever heard or read or, or watched a movie on those, for example, a town that’s traditionally owned and operated by a mining company.

And the biggest employer is that mining company. Well, what happens when the mining company goes under. Now the, an entire community is destroyed because 90% of the community worked and breathed and lived based off of that one employer. And so I didn’t want to be a part of that culture. I didn’t want to, to be stuck where my highest achievement is.

I worked at this factory and so I, I wanted to leave. [00:32:00] And I, but I didn’t wanna go into student loan debt. So I joined the military and that’s how I, that was my escape off of the island. 

De’Vannon: So why the Navy 

Marcus: THEC. Great, great question. I tried the air force. I didn’t like their uniform. No offense. no offense at the time.

I didn’t care for the blues. They’re dressed blues. Tried the Marine Corps Marines. Wouldn’t take me because I have screws in my. And, you know, the Marine Corps, you know, their basic training is pretty hardcore. But the Marines wouldn’t take me because I have screws in my knee from a sports injury as a teenager.

And so I didn’t wanna go army. And so the Navy was the only one that would accept me with the screws in my knee. So I joined the Navy and, and their uniform. And I, I didn’t mind the, the, the long stints at sea. I didn’t, I didn’t mind that where some people be bothered by that, like, [00:33:00] oh, you’re going away for months at a time.

It was like, that was okay for me coming from an island. 

De’Vannon: Well, yeah, I can totally see that you water, water, water, water. . So I commend the Navy. I think the Navy has far better uniforms than the, than the any branch. They got like 15,000 different uniform changes and that peak color. Oh my God. Like the Navy definitely wins.

So I’m not mad at you now. What I want to know. I wanna know about some scandalous shit from the Navy. So you on this boat. So what I’ve always wondered about who was fucking, who on this boat, was there some gay shit that happened? Was there some orgies I wanna know about some experimentations? Tell me what went on.

Marcus: So, so unfortu, so fortunately, unfortunately the part of the Navy that I joined was a submarine forest. So submarines the submarine for the ship that I was on, there are two type. At the time, there were two classes of submarines. There [00:34:00] was a Trident class submarine, which is a lot bigger because it holds nuclear missiles.

And there’s the attack submarines, which is a lot smaller, has a smaller crew. I qualified for a Trident submarine. The deployments are only three months long, so I’ve never been to sea longer than three months. That’s enough time. The fuck. That is a well kind of, kind of, right. And so also too, with the submarine force that has changed since I’ve gotten out, but there were on, it was only allowed men were there gay men on the submarine.

Sure. But at the time it was also the don’t ass don’t tell, which is the same policy that you and, and laws that you were held accountable for while you was in as well. And so if there were gay men on the ship, they couldn’t talk about it and they couldn’t express themselves. Because they were under that.

So I, so, so unfortunately I’m sorry, I didn’t experience a whole lot of dirty stuff or scandal stuff. [00:35:00] And also too tri submarines, don’t pull into port, so we don’t pull into Hawaii. We don’t pull into Dubai. We don’t pull in anywhere. So. If, and that’s what you hear about in the military is a lot of, as soon as those port calls come, you know, the guys they get off and they, you know, they buy the hookers and they get all the, the girls, the girls are right there waiting for, you know, the sailor on the pier or the military guy on the pier.

They’re waiting for you. Right. Cause you got money. You just been out to see for a couple months, you got some money and you’re horny. So Trident submarines, unfortunately don’t pull into ports because of nine 11 and they didn’t, we, we have nuclear missiles on. So we didn’t pull in anywhere. So unfortunate.

I don’t have I guess the dirtiest the dirtiest thing is we would have a halfway movie. And we would have guys dress up as girls because they missed their wives. And so there’d be [00:36:00] a select few of men. , there’d be some men that they would put on wigs and they’d put on underwear and they would borrow their wives heels and they would be like, honey, I’m taking your some of your underwear don’t ask any.

And so they would to around as women, that was, that was the LD, LDS behavior that I experienced. Could that been you know, a open invitation to say, Hey, you have one day to explore your fantasy and that’s it. I don’t know. I didn’t participate. But I, but I, that was, that was one of the craziest things that I experienced as a young man in the.

De’Vannon: Okay, wait a minute. So if you’re out on the submarine for three months, they got the wive’s panties and her heels and wig. So they knew they were gonna do this shit before they left. Cause the wife is not on the submarine. She’s back at home. Absolutely. So he knew he was on a cross dress from the gate.

Absolutely say you had a half a movie [00:37:00] night, what kind of Mo what does half movie mean? 

Marcus: So it’s a halfway point. So 30 days. So when you’re out for 90 days at the halfway point, you’re halfway home because you, we never went out for longer than 90 days. Mm-hmm . So half of 90 days, once you got to that day, there was a big celebration to celebr.

That you’ve made it to the halfway point of this deployment. What kind 

De’Vannon: of movies would you 

Marcus: watch? Whatever, whatever you had. If, I mean, if you had some crazy stuff, if you had some lude stuff, porn, we had some porn, you watching porn, you got porn, you got, but, but there’s so many variations of porn, right? So there’s the, he tie there’s the anime there’s whatever you were into, that was your night to explore.

So hi tide 

De’Vannon: being gay, gay anime porn. So were y’all watching gay anime porn now. 

Marcus: Y’all whoa, whoa, whoa. Now y’all now y’all it was out there. So they would play it. They would play it [00:38:00] wherever. Or you had a lounge. There was a lounge that we could that the, the certain people were certain ranks were allowed.

They could play it in there. 

De’Vannon: So this is not one movie playing on one big screen for everyone on the submarine. You have different movies in different rooms. 

Marcus: Correct. So you have different spaces. You have a gymnasium in, in, we have a fitness area, you have a lounge that was made out for like E six and below you got the chiefs the E six and above, right?

You got different quarters and spaces and lounges designate. You got the officers area, right. That was separate from milit, from the lower rankings. So there was different lounges for different rankings and where you fell in, that was your lounge. So 

De’Vannon: explain to me how. Because clearly you’re not gay cause.

Right, right. Okay. You’re not gay. So you weren’t invited to the gay shit. So the gay origins was definitely happening. You just weren’t there. Right. So, but explain to me, since you [00:39:00] were around the straight homies, how did, how did they make it make sense? Yo bro, I’m straight. Don’t mind me wearing my wife’s panties right now on her heels in this wig.

How does that make sense? Even on a movie night, unless you watching too long flu or Ru Paul’s drag race. I don’t understand like how, and I’m not opposed to it. I think it’s cool as hell. How would you as a straight man go? Yeah, he’s just kind of dressed like a woman the night pass me a beer, like yeah.

Marcus: Yeah. I, I, I think it was just kind of a, a cause it’s tense, right? You’re underneath the ocean for so many months or so many. And it was just kind of like a release, I, for, for example, that one of my deployments, it was my first time being introduced to I forget what you call it. People who dress up like you dress up head to toe in a costume and it could be a [00:40:00] pony.

It could be a horse. You see the latest thing, people dressing up like a T-Rex right and, and dance around in a T. You don’t know what gender that person is inside that costume. And so there was a, there was a guy who did that and I had no idea. I had no idea that that was an actual fantasy that people fulfilled.

And so it was, it was unique to experience. I said, why is he dressed like a horse? Well, how do you know it’s a he in there? I, and you’re right. I don’t know, because he’s covered from head to. All I do know is it should be a guy in that suit because it’s a submarine full of men unless he snuck a woman on board.

And so it was, it was, I, again, a lot of stuff that I had never been exposed to came out on that night and I learned, and I grew mentally because I was like, oh, that’s a thing. Yeah. He, Dr. You know, he, he, he [00:41:00] had an upset, like another guy. He had an obsession with dragon. But not just dragons dragons with extremely large.

Cox. So he would, he was a really good artist. He could draw really well, but he would draw dragons and they would have these massive loads just dangling. And I was like, dude, you’re a really good artist. And then he would flip a page and it’d be a drag, just a, a big strong dragon with this massive SL.

And I’d be like, dude, what. What is this? That’s a fantasy for some people. I had no idea. I had no idea. But it would all, but it would all come out on that night. 

De’Vannon: Y’all some damn freaks is what y’all are in. see if I would, if I would’ve been on an Navy submarine, I would’ve been the Tavern who and my my, my room.

Would’ve just been open and all you Seemen could have come in there. And [00:42:00] just had your way with me. I, I would’ve been the Tavern winch and I would’ve had no shame. 

Marcus: probably, and again, and again, if, if that existed, if that was a thing on, on my ship I would never know because it was, there was, I, I knew there was one guy because he, he just got tired of pretending, you know?

And he, he enjoyed like, there’s a point in time where you have to work on the mess. And so you are serving people. You’re serving the chief’s mess. You’re bringing them food. You’re making their omelets and you’re cooking. Oh, you want some milk? You get, you serve them like, like a waiter or a waitress at a restaurant.

He always enjoyed doing that. That was actually a punishment, but he enjoyed working on the mess next, because he’s rubbing shoulders with the E six S the E seven S and some of the officers. So he’s, you know, in his, you know, he’s, he’s out, he’s prideful. He loves who he is and [00:43:00] he’s out there. He’s like, what do you need master chief, what do you need?

You know, E six. And you know what I’m saying? Like, if, if he was doing that, he probably would’ve. He probably did. I don’t know, but he probably did. But he enjoyed that. And that was actually one of the punishments on his ship. Oh, you gotta work in AEX you gotta work in the kitchen, but he loved it. He loved work in the kitchen.

De’Vannon: Oh, miss thing, like being humiliated. That’s what she liked. but, but what I love is the fact that your ship was open minded like this, because he like this was during dumbass, downtown. I’ve had people on my show who were kicked. Of the Navy, you know, for gay shit that happened, you know, out at sea. So this tells me that, I guess, just like any.

Anything else in life, each ship, each submarine had a different temperament. So your, your submarine was okay with the gay shit. Clearly, if people were twirling about in drag , you know, and stuff like that, [00:44:00] you know, and, and watching hin tie, but his shift that he happened to be on was different. The, one of the thing that really pisses me off about the military is the inconsistency of discipline.

And it was the same way in the air force. One person might get a DUI at base X and get kicked out. Another person might get a DUI base w and get a slap on the wrist, you know? So in your submarine, you having a gay party and a Kiki and everything, but on a different submarine, they discharging people for the same shit.

So at least there was some light. 

Marcus: Yeah, but also you gotta think, and, and, and you may or may not know it’s the culture, right? The culture of who you’re around. And then two, were you handling business when you were, when you were on the clock? Right? Because the, the guys, the same guy who, who was probably getting kicked out for, don’t ask, don’t tell he probably didn’t do his primary.[00:45:00]

Right. And that’s what I saw because there were guys that would get kicked off or get in trouble. But because you were a good worker, you ignored. So if you handling your stuff, you doing your job and you doing the best damn job, you’re getting the good evaluations. You’re, you’re killing the PRT, the physical fitness.

Why would they discharge you? And those are the people I always saw that they would overlook when things like that would happen. If you’re doing your job, we ain’t gonna really mess with you. But if you’re not doing your job, And you’re out here. We gonna find a reason to discharge you. Does that make sense?

That’s what I always saw because I was a, I was a Yoman. So I’m doing the discharge paperwork. We typically discharge the person that he was doing his own thing, and he didn’t want to do his own primary job, which is what you get paid to do. 

De’Vannon: Right. I I had that happen to me cuz somebody sent me like a video with like some guys, Dick getting hard.

It was like called morning wood and [00:46:00] someone put music to it. So it was like a dancing soft heart, Dick and her squadron. She was in the supply squadron on base, so that wasn’t against their policy. I was in the component, repair squadron under the logistics group and it was against their policy. So they tried to get me in trouble because she sent me a video and I opened it.

But because I was the booster club president in charge of morale and I was doing all this extra shit, the Lieutenant shielded me and it was like, he’s not getting any trouble. He’s too valuable deal with it. However, there are some people. Who are mean assholes and it doesn’t matter how good of a job you’re doing.

If they hate gay shit, they just gonna get rid of you no matter how productive you’re being. And I had that experience at Lakewood because I was volunteering 10 hours a week there volunteer supervisor singing in the adult choir, singing in the kids’ life. Singing in the kids choir you know, also teaching and all of that.

And I never bought my gay life to Lakewood when I was there. I was on Lakewood’s time. But when they found out I [00:47:00] wasn’t straight from my MySpace page, they fired me from all aspects of volunteering solely on the purpose of my sexuality, even though I had worked hard for them for years. So it could go either way.

And I appreciate the mercy that they’ve shown when people go, Hey, look at how valuable you are. You know, we don’t want to get rid of you, even though you fucked up. When I was a recruiter and I was wearing piercings and shit, which I know I shouldn’t have been, but I had the highest recruiting number. So I was thinking that would shield me from persecution.

I got an article 15 when a parent snitched me out. To my commander about my piercings and they try to put me out of the military after three or four years of honorable service, exceeding my goals and everything and carrying the squadron in numbers because of that one mistake. So it depends on how much of a Dick you have in charge of you, whether, whether not they’re going to have enough sense to show mercy.

Marcus: Well, also look at it too. That’s the imagine if that got out to the media, what. The [00:48:00]parent who, who was exposed to you again, if that, if that had been military to military, that probably would’ve been the case, your case where, Hey, he’s, he’s doing numbers. He’s doing great. But because that has the potential to go to the media, because a parent complained a civilian complained that’s that’s if it had been, if you and I are on the same military to military, and I saw it and I.

Hey, Marcus, shut the hell up. I outran you leave him alone. He’s pulling numbers. You can control. I can control a, a, a officer can control that situation because that’s military to military, but you have a civilian who I can’t influence that has a potential risk to go public. What if that civilian goes to the news 

De’Vannon: and say the, the, what?

A, a, a recruiter had an earring. The big earring scandal, earring gate there’s are there UN there’s? No pable damage. That was a petty ass parent, right? [00:49:00] Who wasn’t thankful that he walked into my office without an appointment. And I went ahead and saw him anyway. I don’t owe, you know, I didn’t owe people my time.

I could have amazed them, walk out and leave. And then it was on the weekend. It’s not like it was even during the work. So you were. I was off in civilian clothes in my piercings, in my office. Not expecting to see anyone when he showed his bitch ass up being a Karen, but nevertheless, You know, there is no damage that was done.

Did I hurt the air Force’s image? The air force is an extension of the government and our government makes itself look bad enough. Somebody wearing piercings, isn’t going to ruin the what image is the air force, trying to look perfect. They damn sure aren’t and they’re the area defense council, the lawyers who were defending me and representing me in that case, when that happened, disagreed with the commander, they feel like recruiters of all people should be given more leverage to look like the society that they serve.

Cuz the recruiter is not on an air force base. You know, we have an office downtown, so there’s some [00:50:00] people. Who who hold the mind that we would get a lot further along as recruiters. If we looked like the people we were trying to recruit and my numbers were through the fucking roof, like literally I was recruiting like eight, nine people a month.

Everyone else was recruiting like two people a month. I had the largest territory. My numbers could not be argued with. And I was doing it with piercings 

Marcus: because you looked like your community, you look like your surround. You look like, like them like me. 

De’Vannon: Yeah. The same thing. When you’re trying to win souls for the Lord, you have to have things in common with people.

You can’t just show up. Saying I’m better than you, or I know what’s gonna fix you. You have to have a common ground with people. And then if they like what you’re saying, they gonna buy it anyway. You don’t have to try to force them, but you gotta, you gotta get on people’s level and, you know, and, and wearing piercings.

I just that’s what the fuck they had going on in California? I was in Southern California. I mean, shit. So . [00:51:00] But the Lord worked it out. He allowed me to, he overruled them. He didn’t let them throw me out, had to call my pastor to intervene in prayer, but we was able to prevail over them. And I was able to leave the military with my honorable discharge, even though they tried to kick me out.

And after that, they targeted me though. They, for instance, they sent me to get drug tested three weeks in a row. Every Tuesday at one o’clock calling it random. They were trying to find a, a more concrete reason to get rid of me after the piercing incident. It’d be a 

Marcus: dishonorable. Yeah. 

De’Vannon: but the Lord worked it out.

So, so I wanna know. So tell me the road that, that got you to your podcast. Why did you start your podcast? 

Marcus: I started my podcast. Great question. Thank you for that. I started my podcast because we as a society and I, if for your audio listeners, I’m pointing to my skin I’m an African American male. We are not doing well [00:52:00] financially, relationship wise all of these different areas.

We’re not doing well in these area. And so I started my podcast out of necessity, because if you wanted information on finance, you have to Google, you gotta ask a friend, you gotta go to your bank. You gotta go to your financial advisor, whoever there wa there, isn’t really a kind of a single point where you can go and say, I want to find an expert on this particular matter, right?

There’s not one place that you can go to. All of those things, right? You have to kind of search it out and piece it together for yourself. If you’re looking for financial experience, if you’re looking for real estate experience, if you’re looking for experts, On on right. What it’s like to be a drug dealer, what things to consider.

Right? Those are the things that you have to look for. You gotta that, and they’re scattered everywhere. I [00:53:00] wanted one place. That one person could go, Hey, I am, I am not satisfying my wife in the bedroom. I had a sex expert. I’ve had several sex experts. She now opened a that was a great interview. She now opened, she called it the shade room.

she now opened and it’s called the Oasis. She now opened a place where husbands and wives can actually go and they can draw out their fantasies. Right? If you had a fantasy, you now have a safe space, a safe environment, and she’s a certified sex educator. She’s a. So she, before the pandemic, she would have couples come to this space and she would teach them and say, Hey, play with her like this, do this, try this, Hey, that hurts her.

So all these different things make up a person. And so to create balance, I created a show that you could go to for whatever you’re looking for or most things that you’re looking for. [00:54:00] Right. You wanna know how to save money on travel? I just had a travel expert, come on the show and share tips and tricks on how to save money, how to fly across the United States for free.

That helps you, that that doesn’t do anything but help you. And so that’s how gentleman’s style podcast came to be. It came out of a necessity and a need for, for a single source. 

De’Vannon: So, yeah, so I’ll say I listen to some of this episode with y’all they’re about, I would say like 80 ish percent finance and then the, the other ones get down and dirty into deeper aspects of life.

I believe there’s one about like a girl who used to be like a stripper than she found Christ and like, Another person, given his thoughts on like the meaning of life, you know, and things like and things like that that went about the, the, the, the doctor you had on with the vaccine. So couldn’t talk with that [00:55:00] episode.

Couldn’t talk with that episode. Why 

Marcus: not? Why, what, what stuck out to you about that episode? He has a lot 

De’Vannon: of strong opinions. I didn’t hear enough fact checking. I didn’t hear Enough you know, okay. He believes this statistics, this many people have died in his opinion from the vaccine. I didn’t hear enough.

According to this report over here, according to this over here the way he gave advice. For people who, if they live in a state where they’re mandating for the children to be vaccinated at a school, he was like, it’s time for you to leave that state. Or if it’s an employer there’s mandating vaccine.

He’s like, it’s time for you to leave that job. You know, whatever the case may be. I didn’t hear anything about like, perhaps you need an exit strategy before you just up and leave, you know, there’s, you know, not everybody. Can just, most people can’t just piece out from the state they can’t just quit up and move school districts.

They can’t just walk away from a job. [00:56:00] He said, it’s so haphazardly, you know? And so like casually with not enough empathy, you know, for the granular things that people deal with. And it made him come off to me is just bitter against vaccines and things like that. And not actually objectively looking at it from every possible angle.

Marcus: So, so I apologize for that. I’ll do better on interviews like that. And that was what he’s talking about. That was a book review. And so the facts are in his book that he’s selling his book, just like, just like you, there are you, the goal is to draw people to purchase your book. Right? So, so the, so that’s why you probably didn’t, but I’ll do better in the future to interview and get those nuggets.

I’m sorry. I mean, everybody 

De’Vannon: has their own styles, nothing for you to apologize. And it’s, and I, and I don’t have to be friends or cool with someone to agree with everything you said and done. I like the [00:57:00] friction. You know, but that’s what works for your audience, you know, on your show, you’re there for your audience.

So I’m saying all this to say, you know, even though, even though you are on my show, that doesn’t mean that I agree with all of your podcasts. That one, no, because I am pro vaccination. I have my fourth shot and everything like that. And and I’ve just known so many people who’ve died without the bloody thing that is just sickening.

And, you know, you’ve had people who they say have died with it. I know people who’ve died without it is on, you know, it’s whatever works for you. I don’t tell any, any person one way or the other, you know, what to do with that. Because it’s such a personal thing. The anti-vax people, they don’t come around me , you know, because, because of my personal, my personal feelings about that, and, you know, having a history of HIV and hepatitis, you know, I’m vocal about my diseases and things like that.

But there are people who have things that they would, they just don’t want people to know. And which people who are anti-vax. [00:58:00] Puts people like us with compromise or immune systems at greater risk. And therefore we can’t have you around us as we don’t want to take any kind of risk of dying. Now I’m, I’m gonna say that, but there’s some people who might feel that way, who don’t wanna tell you they got HIV.

And so, and so you see each’s own, people have all kinds of different minds. Out there. And the pandemic has shown me that in greater proportion. So I respect anybody’s decision. Just, I just hope the energy behind that decision. Isn’t bitter. And it’s not as though whoever isn’t thinking like you is wrong, you know, that, that, that’s what I’m careful to avoid.

We’re just simply different. 

Marcus: Yes, sir. Very true. 

De’Vannon: So. That’s pretty much what I felt like I wanted to cover. I wanted to introduce people to you. I feel like you’ve given people some transparency that would make them interested in finding out more his show has a lot of [00:59:00] variety. We didn’t really talk a lot about the finance aspect of it, because this is not really a financial podcast.

God knows I’ve had an. Payday loans myself. I, I, I heard you when you talked about the overdrawn bank accounts and paying $35 fees, a hundred dollars overdrawn fees working for the next check to pay off the damn overdraft fees I’ve been there. So for people who are interested in investments and different alternative strategies, things, opportunities that may be specific to ethnic communities and ethnic people Marcus’ podcast.

It’s good for that. A lot of financial advice is on his show. We didn’t cover that here, but you can go over there. His YouTube channel is beautiful. He has about a million videos and everything like that. And and his are very highly produced, you know, and stuff like that with all these cute cartoons and animations and, you know, the.

The applause, the different the different vocal effects and stuff like that. He has like a full studio suite. We’ll get like that one day, but [01:00:00] you know, for now , but for now we’re keeping it simple and effective as sex drugs in Jesus. He’s like a one, man, he’s doing 10 people’s jobs over there. I don’t know how he does it, but all of this information will go in the showy notes as it always does.

It’s a gentle man style podcast. Any last words, Marcus, you can say whatever you want to the world. 

Marcus: No, thank you for having me as a true honor to be on your show. Thank you for inviting me and you know, yet you guys can connect with me. I’m I go by my name on Facebook. Marcus Norman. And if you can’t contact me there I go, you can email me if you have questions, Marcus gentlemen, style, podcast.com and, and thank you again for having me.

It’s been a great pleasure.

De’Vannon: Thank you all so much for taking time to listen to the sex [01:01:00] drugs in Jesus podcast. It really means everything to me. Look, if you love the show, you can find more information and resources at SexDrugsAndJesus.com or wherever you listen to your podcast. Feel free to reach out to me directly at DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com and on Twitter and Facebook as well.

My name is De’Vannon and it’s been wonderful being your host today and just remember that everything is gonna be right.


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