Episode #63: How To Be A Hoe! + Woman/Bottom Shaming + Rape Culture, With Dr. Vernon T. Scott, Podcast Host & Author



Dr. Vernon T. Scott is from the state of Georgia. He is currently pursuing a Sex Coaching certification from Sex Coaching University and earning a second masters in Marriage and Family Therapy with a Systemic Sex Therapy specialization.

Vernon has years of experience in life coaching and sexual health research and education. He is also an advocate for trans rights and fighting against rape culture and its systemic impact within society. Vernon plans to use his platform to provide healthy conversations related to the nuances of sexual expression and amplify the voices of those often forgotten by society.

He is the host of the Heauxliloquy Podcast and the owner of Slaytor’s Playhouse, LLC. The podcast focuses on bringing people outside the compressed box of sexual expression. Vernon and his guests have conversations that range from kinks to personal sexual experiences to mental health. As for Slaytor’s Playhouse, it is a publishing company that currently provides journals, artwork, and books.

Social Media, Website, and Merch

Vernon’s IG and Twitter: @UrFavHeauxst

Podcast Twitter: @Heauxliloquy

Book link: https://www.amazon.com/Essential-Guide-How-Hoe/dp/173663190X




INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to):


·      How To Be A Hoe!

·      Present Day Racism 

·      Sex Positivity Breakdown

·      A Discussion On Personal Autonomy  

·      Why Are You Promiscuous?

·      How Long Could You Be Celibate For?

·      Female & Bottom Shaming

·      Should Tops Be Cancelled?

·      Random Ho Definitions #WTF

·      Rape Culture Defined





Website 1: https://www.heauxliloquy.com

Website 2: https://slaytorsplayhouse.com

How To Be A Hoe: https://amzn.to/3n86RIR

Poetry Book: https://amzn.to/3Aavxrx

YouTube: https://bit.ly/3nicLXD

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/urfavheauxst/

Twitter (Vernon): https://twitter.com/UrFavHeauxst

Twitter (Podcast): https://twitter.com/Heauxliloquy

TikTok: https://bit.ly/3xOIjcP

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vernontscott/





Website: https://www.SexDrugsAndJesus.com

Website: https://www.DownUnderApparel.com

YouTube: https://bit.ly/3daTqCM

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SexDrugsAndJesus/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sexdrugsandjesuspodcast/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/TabooTopix

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devannon

Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.es/SexDrugsAndJesus/_saved/

Email: DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com





·      Pray Away Documentary (NETFLIX)


TRAILER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_CqGVfxEs


·      OverviewBible (Jeffrey Kranz)




·      Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed (Documentary)



·      Leaving Hillsong Podcast With Tanya Levin




·      Upwork: https://www.upwork.com

·      FreeUp: https://freeup.net




·      Disabled American Veterans (DAV): https://www.dav.org

·      American Legion: https://www.legion.org


·      What The World Needs Now (Dionne Warwick): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfHAs9cdTqg





·      PodMatch is awesome! This application streamlines the process of finding guests for your show and also helps you find shows to be a guest on. The PodMatch Community is a part of this and that is where you can ask questions and get help from an entire network of people so that you save both money and time on your podcasting journey.







You’re listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to! And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right at the end of the day. My name is De’Vannon and I’ll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world as we dig into topics that are too risqué for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what’s really going on in your life.

There is nothing off the table and we’ve got a lot to talk about. So let’s dive right into this episode.

De’Vannon: Hey, Hey. Hey, y’all I love you so much. Thank you for listening and welcome back again to another week dr. Vernon T Scott is back to drop some serious base on us. Y’all this time around we’re discussing his book, the essential guide on how to be a ho.

So in this episode, we’re gonna get into a really deep breakdown on what exactly sex positivity is.

We talk a little bit about present day racism. We discuss personal autonomy.[00:01:00] We challenge you on why you are promiscuous. If you are,

and we ponder the question, should tops be canceled? Please enjoy. Hello, are you beautiful bitches out there? My lovely supporters, my lifelong lovers. All of you helped to keep this podcast afloat. Welcome back to the sex drugs in Jesus podcast. I have with you today, your favorite ho the host of the ho lyricy podcast and also the author of a book called the essential guide on how to be a.

Yes, his name is Vernon T Scott. There is a doctor ahead of that, but he don’t like to talk about that too much, but he went to school and got his edification. And so we gonna give credit where credit is motherfucking do, how you doing the day Dr. Scott 

Vernon: you know, as the old folks say, I am blessed in highly favor, but , [00:02:00] it’s a beautiful day.

It’s been a rainy ass weekend, but I’m dry as hell today. Thank the Lord, but , I’m good. I’m good. I’m good. It’s been a great weekend. I feel re-energized and I also can use a nap. So life is good.

De’Vannon: Well, amen and amen. On a Tuesday afternoon as we’re recording this So we had Vernon on before y’all as we discussed in the previous episode, and if you didn’t catch it, I hope you go back and catch it. We talk about his podcast, the Hoy podcast in depth, we talked about how he’s a sexual. He is a sexual experience coach.

He gave us some deep insight to how he was sexually harassed by his cousins when he was younger, which is kind of how we closed out the last episode. And so I appreciated that vulnerable story, which can also be found in [00:03:00] his book. And so on today’s show, we’re going to be talking more about the book before we get into telling people exactly how to be Ahoe.

I wanted to just take a moment to get your thoughts on the 4th of July. From my perspective, I feel like the 4th of July has been canceled until we get a Supreme court that has a soul, a holiday that’s supposed to revolve around freedom. Doesn’t sound very free to me when women can no longer do what their bodies, what they’re supposed to.

Then we’re gonna talk about the shootings that happened on this free day. So what do you think about the first? 

Vernon: not, not you bringing me in on some tough shit. I was not prepared. I’m prepared. So prepared. Let me start off with the 4th of July. I am definitely with you. Like what the fuck is that? What it’s a day.

It’s a day that I’m off and I’m happy to be off that. Thank the Lord. I get my rest. But I [00:04:00] I’m with you on cancel the day. Like one, like you said, there’s no freedoms to be celebrating because we were just restricting those on a regular basis. Like one day we wake up, guess what? Black people are gonna be enslaved again, as though like the current employment system is in the way, like that’s doing that or the prison system.

So there’s that. So for me, I’m not celebrating the fourth until one. We abolish the prison system. Two, we get reparations for black and indigenous people across the fucking globe. I’m not celebrating until women have their autonomy over their bodies because we need that. I’m not celebrating until sex workers are respected for the things that they do.

I’m not celebrating till victims of sex trafficking have the resources that they need to heal for whatever traumas that they’ve experienced. And they are also respected in the society. So fuck the holiday we ain’t free.

De’Vannon: well, I get what, what he [00:05:00] said. I couldn’t say it no better than that, but exactly there. And I served in the military, which is what the whole thing is kind of supposed to be about. People are like, thank you veterans for your service and keeping our borders free. But as an, as an honorably discharged veteran of the United States air force, Fuck independence day

So now on independence day in, in in the Highland area of Chicago, which is supposed to be a really rich area, six people died and like 20 something people got shot the hell up. One of, one of the people who died was like, I think a 76 year old man in a wheelchair because this 21 year old white boy decided to go, you know, do what crazy ass white boys do, which is shoot.

Exercise is 

Vernon: privilege. Exercise is privilege. 

De’Vannon: exercise is what is it? Second amendment, write the bear arms or whatever the fuck mm-hmm . And so. and then also in [00:06:00] Philadelphia, a shooting broke out and I know two cops got grazed. I haven’t heard of any deaths from that yet. So since we’re talking about fuck the 4th of July and fucking depends day, what do you think about these shootings that happened?

And, and from the perspective in particularly of the fact that. They went and detained this white boy, I think had he been black? He would’ve been shot on site. Okay. Gun or no gun. And then once they detained him, they said we are not officially charging him yet, you know, in all of this . So what do you think 

Vernon: so I can’t speak too much on the Philadelphia one, but the Illinois one I’m just like, what the hell?

Like we have what Dylan roof who got like fucking was it, McDonald’s our burger king athlete. He shot up a whole church of people. We have Kyle written house who, what murdered two people and still have [00:07:00] the right to DAPP up police officers and do where the hell he wants to do. And now we have this one who just decides, oh, you know what, I’m stressed out.

And I want to go exercise my freedom to the second amendment and shoot up some people who are just there to have a celebration of what the holiday that you’re supposedly in support of, because you’re such a, such a Patriot. You’re such a Patriot that you feel as though that you need to gun down innocent people without a weapon.

You’re that brave. You’re that much of a Patriot. I’ll get the fuck outta here. uh, And then we have. You know, the officers who, officers who decide, okay, we’re gonna chase this person down. We’re going to one, not try to shame any of his history. We’re going we have the media, that’s bringing up all the positive images of this person, nothing dealing with the fact that he, and assuming his family were massive Trump supporters as though that is something that fits within his ideology of what he’s, what he’s done.

Let’s go with like the [00:08:00] Buffalo shooting also within the same ideology of let’s shoot up motherfuckers, even though that one’s more racially based in this one, but what it’s all about terrorism anyway. So what terrorism doesn’t have a true race to it other than cisgender white men, but that’s different, but like yet still.

With this situation, we have officers who, you know, did chase him down, ensure that he lived, but we also have a system of, you know, justice officers, as they’re not, who couldn’t even stand up for children and you already. So I was like, if you, if you’re going, you’re going to chase down to protect a white life, but you can, but you can easily gun down any black life that you see.

It doesn’t make sense. And most of those black lives just don’t have weapons on them. So it’s easier to [00:09:00] shoot them down in fame that you were what afraid of your life, if you’re so afraid of your life, why are you a police officer? Aren’t you supposed to be the bravest of the society, but you cannot go in and save children.

But you cannot go in and disarm someone who is an active active shooter though. You have the training to do so you cannot go in and do anything to actually support and make our communities better. You cannot even solve rape cases when you have DNA of victims, but you can kill black people and people without weapons sounds about white.

De’Vannon: the Cassity of it all.

Vernon: but yeah, that’s my stance. Sorry.

De’Vannon: Well, what’s again. Well, once again, what the fuck can I say after that? [00:10:00] What can I say? What can I say? But I have been thinking about, since all of these white people have been shooting up people. You know, black people, you know, there’s shootings everywhere, but I, I can’t think, has it ever happened where a black person or anybody who’s not white has killed like 20, 30 people in a public setting.

Vernon: Well, I can’t say 2030, but there was that situation in New York New York subway where it was a black man who was going around. I think it was either a bomb threat. And I think he did shoot some people, I think about six. But you know, that’s being blasted. Well, it, within that media media cycle, it was blasted everywhere, even on Fox news as though that’s not racist as hell.

And then you have I think about five, six years ago, there was that one that I don’t know if, if he [00:11:00] was law enforcement or a part of the military who was gunning down police officers and they were extremely scared and I think he killed two or three, but other than that, not too many if anything, it will be shrouded as gang violence as though.

You know, we don’t have a lot of white militia gangs out here. That’s murdering people left and right without that title. So I don’t know too many gang members who are just out here having mass shootings at the mass shooting at the mass 

De’Vannon: shooting. Right. And like I heard someone say I was listening to the morning, Joe podcast earlier.

One of the guests that they had on there was talking about how all of these, like basically white mass shooters, they put on this persona of being like loan, sheep and everything like that. But basically they are all connected. Mm-hmm , you know, like you’re saying it it’s like a, [00:12:00] it’s like a long distance relationship sort of gang.

They all have the same motives, the same motivation, the same, same motives opera, Andy, the same end result. You have like a long white boy who had access to weapons, who you can just walk in the store and get, and, and he had an agenda against. People for whatever reason he was angry. He was bitter. It’s like, they’re isolated, but not really.

It’s not real, not really. 

Vernon: The other misnomer is that they have some type of mental health disorder. I know plenty of people who have mental health disorder, who’s not out here shooting up people. Shit. We’ve talked about this on the last episode, I have like five, I’m not out here. Mass killing people.

I’m not masking motherfuckers because I don’t, I don’t have that in my heart to do so. Like mental health has nothing to do with these decisions that these people are making consciously, they thought about this, they planned it and they enacted it. That’s nothing dealing with mental health. That’s a conscious decision, [00:13:00] even though, even if they might not be in the right state of mind, as some people might try to put it, but within their reality, within their perspective, they are doing this willingly and they’re pursuing that.

De’Vannon: Right. So, so what you’re saying is they didn’t just flash out one day and have a panic attack or a nervous breakdown. You know, you saw the social media posts leading up to the date. You have all the receipts. As they slowly planned, bought the weapons, got the ammunition, staked out the plates. This wasn’t like a mental break.

This wasn’t a mental snap. You saying this was premeditated manslaughter. Mm-hmm 

Vernon: just as premeditated as January 6th. That’s all I could say. we all saw it. we’re just like, so y’all, y’all not gonna do anything. Y’all not gonna do anything. Oh, is December 21st. So y’all motherfuckers. Ain’t going do anything.

You’re not gonna, okay. You’re not gonna do anything. Okay. It’s January 1st. Y’all it’s new. Year’s are we, we still not doing [00:14:00] anything. They already said they’re meeting. They’re meeting in five days. They said what they’re doing. So we’re not, we’re letting this happen. Okay. Us in Georgia. Okay. Let’s go ahead and make sure we get these votes in.

Okay. Georgia ballot have been recounting and everything. Everything’s good. Mind you. Tomorrow’s the big show.

Oh God. 

De’Vannon: And so black and brown and indigenous people don’t have the luxury of setting around trying to plan massacres and slaughters. You’re always gonna have your exceptions with buying large. We spend our energy trying to figure out how to get food every day, how to not get shot in the back every day, how to run through our neighborhood safely every day, how to feel accepted and try to go places where we’re not gonna be rejected and kicked out.

Every race has its issues with white people, predominantly perpetuate this mass shooting violence. Even me when I planned [00:15:00] on to go on trips and stuff like that, I have to look at, okay, where am I going to travel? Am I going to be accepted as being black? There there’s places here in Louisiana. We know Thelan the KU Klux.

Klan is still around. So I can’t pull off at every rest stop or at every city, even today in the year 2022. So I have to say, do I really want to go to this iron belt state or this Midwestern state? Is there anything, is there anyone there who might try to pull a Matthew Shepherd on me, you know, and tie me to a fence and kill me.

So I can’t just like, I don’t feel free enough to just go anywhere in the globe. I have to stop and get pause and say, will I be safe there? You know, this is not, you know, I got all this to think about. I don’t have time to be going to shoot up people. You have to be comfortable enough and, and pleasant enough in life to have time to exert energy into violence.

And I just don’t have it. 

Vernon: Look, I I’m glad that you mentioned Aras. That’s Alabama. I, [00:16:00] I call it by his name, Aras and in order to like, whenever I know I have to travel through there, I have to make sure, okay. Am I going to be going through Montgomery or Birmingham to make it through, through this damn state?

Those are the only two places I am comfortable with gassing up my vehicle if I am not going okay, Huntsville too. If I’m not going to go through any of those. Oh, I’m guessing up before I even entered into that state. And if I’m going to Florida, oh, I’m I, my gas tank is is running on the Lord’s energy because I’m not trying to stop in Florida until I get to my damn destination.

And I’m not trying to travel at night because I don’t know those cities like that. Oh, no Lord. Mm-hmm like, these are the, these are the things that we have to think about quite frequently because it’s too much crazy shit out here. Everybody’s against you everywhere you go. Like I’m just trying to have a good time.

I’m trying to torch some ass on a beach somewhere, but no, just because I’m trying to have fun is scary to you. My, my current [00:17:00] kink is making white people sick with my happiness because, oh my God, I will be in in my vehicle driving around, minding my own business with my songs, playing very loud and happy as a motherfucker and loving that.

They’re disappointed that I’m not sad. 

De’Vannon: It’s a kink. I know that’s right. get off, hit off on it. Motherfuckers, get off on it. 

Vernon: Look does my happiness offend you? Mm

De’Vannon: Deal with it, bitch. And so so, so the book is called an essential guide on how to be a ho. So you, you, I read through this book and thank you so much for sending it over Vernon. And I’m very happy that you wrote it for you because I could see that you’ve got a lot of rage out in this, in, in these pages and everything like that.

And authorship is very cathartic. And so whether it’s writing poetry or writing a blog or writing a journal or writing a book, [00:18:00] writing is therapy. You know, in writing therapy is something that is often prescribed in mental health settings. And I’m so happy that you are able to have this experience for your own mental health.

So at the top of the book, you really get into a lot of what the book is not. And so I want you to give us. Like your take on that, you know, you were telling us how it’s not, how to be a fuckboy or a fuck girl, and definitely not slut SHA. And so what is the book? Not 

Vernon: so all those things, it’s not a space for you to think that, oh, this book is going to give me the guide of how I can play the game.

This, this book is going to tell me how I can toy what other people’s emotions, toy their feelings for me to trick them into thinking that I’m, I’m the best man or woman that they ever want to be with. And then I can just dog, whoever I want to want to dog is not a place of saying that.

Oh, just because you’re going by the title of ho you are a [00:19:00] degradation to society. No it’s a space of learning that it’s okay to be sexual it’s okay for you to be proud of who you are. It’s also it’s not. A space to justify a lot of the miseducation that we’ve received as we’ve aged about how we should be in relationships rather than who we are within our relationships.

Because that is something that varies per person and per couple per throuple per however, poly. You want to be something that varies because we don’t all live the same life. So why try to force people to be something that they’re. 

De’Vannon: Mm, tell a friend and then, then I want you to talk about, you know, you, you mentioned how some people like to use religion to come for people who want to be sex positive.

So speak to me your mind about how, how religion can be used to try to. Same people. 

Vernon: So within a lot of [00:20:00] religious circles, especially when you have Southern Baptist Christians, or even just Christianity in general, how sexuality is taboo. You’re not supposed to talk talk about that with your family, your friends, your lovers, which is also something that’s very concerning.

There would always been concerning to me. Like, how am I supposed to have sex with the person? And I can have the conversation about sex with the person. It doesn’t make sense. But it’s always been used as a way a tool to restrict people in how they express themselves sexually. I remember growing up hearing that, oh, a Christian should never, you know, participate in mutual masturbation or oral sex or anything that’s considered sodomy cuz you know, sodomy and Gamora or Sodom and Gamora like.

Totally fucked up that, but you know how that is a lesson from the Bible of how you should not [00:21:00] be out here having sex and being wild with other people. And I’m just like, But I don’t get that message when I read those verses I did not get that in anything as I grew older and revisit those chapters.

I’m like, okay, is it possible that within, you know, Sodom Andora that they were raping a lot of people. And that was a the offenses that the Lord found extremely unhealthy within that society. And it was like, you know what? Let’s destroy some shit. Is that, is that not a possibility because all this stuff that you’re that a lot of the preachers were bringing to me to educate me on what that message is.

I’m like, I’m not finding the evidence in this text. I’m not finding anything. That’s really talking about homosexuality other than lay with men or but it’s okay. Like, this is the going on the double standards. It’s not okay for men to lay with men, but [00:22:00] it’s okay for women to lay with women. Both of those are homosexual relationships.

That’s not that doesn’t make sense. Like just all of those things have been taught within a lot of religious circles and it is just trying to unpack those to just see exactly. Okay, who am I within this sexual space or outside of religion? Where do I find myself when it comes to, you know, sexual expression?

Yeah. In terms 

De’Vannon: of like the whole Sodo, the more thing I did, like a whole three part series that dissected those CLO passages. And I recommend people to go back and find them cuz we broke it down. I agree with what you’re saying. And I did that with a Dr. Mar Mar Marcia Ledford, who was a You know, a pastor and everything like that in a, within a gay affirming religion.

And [00:23:00] and I agree, you know, people have got to learn how to read these scriptures for themselves and, and understand this how subjective the interpretation is. And everybody can read the same text and come out of, come out of it with whatever it is that they want. Air go. We have all of these different interpretations of one text.

There’s so many different interpretations of the Bible because everybody has a different take on it. What’s not okay is for one person to feel like the way they think is the way everyone else should think. And then that’s how we get into this whole anti-abortion anti every damn thing, because somebody’s trying to say my view of ethics and morality should be everyone else’s view.

And then that, which is complete bullshit. And it’s also arrogant. And it’s also how people. A hypocrite and falling through the sin of hypocrisy because the Lord never told you to straighten everybody else out, which is why he stopped Paul Saul on the road to Damascus. You know, everybody always marvels about the road of dam road to Damascus conversion, but I look at it as God stopping somebody from trying to go control of the people, you know, which is what he was [00:24:00] going to go do.

He was gonna go be a typical fucking evangelical Republican, and the Lord told, set his ass down somewhere. So we, how can we be, can we be sex positive and still have a relationship with God? 

Vernon: Oh, definitely. Like there’s even something called spiritual sexuality. If somebody wanted to go dabble into that, it’s it’s most, it is mostly on how your sexual being relates to your spiritual being, which can also relate to your religious being but it’s in.

In my perspective because I’m not really a religious person not anymore. It is figuring out where does your sexual expression meet your religion based off of your perspective and how your religion then can enhance your spirituality and just finding that type of balance. [00:25:00] So yeah, let’s go with that.

De’Vannon: I mean, you’re right. And I would just, I was, I would just like to remind everybody that it was God that invented sex, you know, not humans, not the Catholic church, not any church or denomination and what man has a tendency to do. You know, to try to take ownership of something and try to package it and rebrand it and sell it to you.

Like they’re the experts on it when really that’s not the case. And, and the same thing goes for the whole Bible. And the same thing goes for so many things in this earth that people, you know, try to, to just to just try to take over. So just remember God created sex. And so when you have questions about it, I suggest you pray and go to him.

Mm. You know, throw and ask a damn preacher. You know, don’t go and ask nobody, you know, if you’re gonna ask them, be sure you ask God too, because the person who gave you a sex drive who crafted your body so that your Dick can get hard and your pussy can swell [00:26:00] and get wet was God, it was not people. I like to go to the head of the organization.

And so if I want to find out about this body, I’m gonna go to God. The one who made it first before I go to anybody else, don’t you let people tell you what to do with your body 

Vernon: mm-hmm and, you know I, I forget which friend this was, it might have been high school, but they were I think it was high school.

This person, they were referring to the Bible cuz they read the Bible on a regular basis and they were like, Hey, did you ever realize that the story of Adam and Eve can really be A sex tale is just a, a discussion about how people have sex. And after they brought that to my attention, I actually sat back and thought about that even when it comes to the snake and the apple and all that, how those in themselves can be any windows four, the [00:27:00] penis and the the vulva.

And when, you know, you commit some things up and a person and the female, or the woman gives birth, there’s always going to be some kind of cramp, some contractions. And that’s the thing, rather than it being about sin. It’s about, okay, we have sex. Here’s your sex lesson?

De’Vannon: Who am I to say otherwise, , I’m open to all kinds of perspectives on things and stuff like that. And, and that, and that may work for some people, if they don’t wanna take a literal interpretation of it, go with it. You know, the important thing is to open your mind. To possibilities of what may be. Right.

And then, and for whatever you do not to think against other folks. Now, I might not agree with that. I might choose to say, you know, that the story might be more literal, but that I’m not gonna tell your friend that he’s wrong, you know, or I’m not gonna say that I [00:28:00] disagree. You know, I think he’s gonna go to hell for thinking that or anything like that.

I might be like, okay, that’s cute. But you know, everybody has to decide what they think about everything. You can’t be one things you have to make a fucking choice. And the beauty of it that we don’t have to agree. I love how beautiful that is. I’ve never heard of that before. So I need time to meditate on that.

you know

So tell me what the. Is we talk about what it ain’t, you you’ve kind of touched on it, but is there anything more else you wanna say about what the book 

Vernon: is? I will say the book in general is about understanding who you are as a sexual being and owning that and appreciating who you are and understanding and knowing the importance of personal autonomy and consent.

When it does come to your daily lives, cuz consent is not something that only sticks to sex. You have to consent to things every single day. One of the things like most one, I was life [00:29:00] coaching. One of the things I will ask some of my clients is have you consented to yourself? And as, and some people don’t, they just allow other people to dictate whatever they do with their lives, or they allow others influences to hinder their decisions on what’s best for them.

And consenting to yourself is allowing yourself to take control of what you do in your life. And you’d be surprised at how, how many people just said no to that 

De’Vannon: child. If you can’t love yourself. Cause mama would say, how the hell you gonna love anybody else? 

Vernon: Mm-hmm 

De’Vannon: so many of our issues in this life revert back to a lack of self love and self acceptance.

And so in the book, you really, really. Talked a lot about whether or not a, person’s gonna find the content offensive and, and something like that. And you, and you said very often, you know, if it’s not for [00:30:00] you, it’s not for you, you know, move on to the next chapter, you know, and stuff like that. And this is just, I mean, in there you say you hope the person that the reader doesn’t find it offensive, but if they do, you have like a lot of warnings and stuff like that, , you know, as you , as I read through it, but what I found to be curious and very interesting and very warming and heartening and endearing is that, you know, you said if the person does find something offensive, you challenge him to find out why they find it offensive.

You know, you’re not saying you find that offensive, go fuck off, but you challenge people who have opposing views from you. Where are you getting that from? So speak to me about why you challenge the reader to do a gut check and find out why they’re offended. 

Vernon: I, I will say it’s because we often don’t know other, other people’s stories.

We make them ourselves. And sometimes you do have to look at situations at face value. And if there’s nothing to [00:31:00] really indicate like, oh, this person’s completely transphobic or something like that. Where does it say that? Where does it show that? Why are you getting that message? Is there something that you received from other people that said that, oh, based on this phrasing, this person’s transphobic.

One of the things that I did within the book to ensure that people are, they feel accepted when reading it, because some people might fall into that space of, okay, this person is being very gender specific in their writing. But this is supposed to be something about all people, technically speaking.

As I mentioned in the book, I wrote it for African American masculine presenting people as like the target audience. I wrote it so that it’s something that other people can read it and still, you know [00:32:00] connect with like even the sex scene between think Jordan and Aubrey I think that’s their name.

I forgot. But even with that, I purposely chose not to utilize any Like gender specific or sex specific sex organs, because why what’s the person purpose of doing that? If you cannot put yourself in that scene. And let’s say even if someone coats into that consent chapter and they find out, oh my God, how dare he say that?

Why is this conversation about consent? Something that you are pushing against? Because all I’m providing is the facts of, of the matter based off of my actual research on it. Now of course, things within consent can vary. It truly can. Most definitely you come Frank. Personal autonomy, but what is that pushback coming from?

Because I remember multiple times [00:33:00] whenever I even held a consent workshop. Right. Some of the people there, most definitely it comes to like, you, you don’t have ownership over your wife. They’re like, oh no, we’re in this marriage together. I own all of her actions. And I’m like, no, your wife is a whole nother person.

Like they have personal autonomy. Mm-hmm , you should not be trying to control them. So that’s why I tell people to challenge themselves, to figure out. Why do you believe that? Why do you feel as though you have ownership over your spouse? Soly? Because y’all are, y’all signed a contract with each other, rather than seeing them as a whole nother individual.

De’Vannon: I like for that same thinking to be extended into all areas of our lives. You know, I challenge everyone. Any belief you have, why do you believe what you believe? Mm. You know, if you can’t answer that question, well, then you running off of [00:34:00] somebody else’s playbook for your life. Mm. And sometimes it feels good to do that because it gives you power and control over other people.

But in trying to gain power and control over other people, you lose power and control over yourself. It’s a, it’s a tricky thing, but the Lord said it like this in the Hebrew Bible, he said that it’s possible for a man to take a whole city and not have control over themselves. You see? So it’s easy to go and conquest somebody else, but you have no control over yourself.

Vernon: You see, try that sounds like government. 

De’Vannon: Oh, it is the Lord is speaking to many, many, many, many, many people, any sort of person or entity that wants to rule another person, be it one person in a relationship wanting to dominate another, the government overreaching or whatever. All that energy could be turned internally.

And then you could improve yourself rather than trying to fuck with other people. Mm-hmm . [00:35:00] Now you said in the book that being sex positive does not necessarily equate to promiscuity. I want you to preach about that because there’s certain somebody in my life and I’m not, they shall remain nameless. You know?

The other name

Vernon: joking, I’m joking, you 

De’Vannon: know, there’re a certain, somebody, you know, say the name. So 

Vernon: say their name, say the name 

De’Vannon: mm-hmm you know who Their interpretation. They were like I’m sex positive. And this person was sleeping with four to five different people per week. And there was a whole argument thing that happened.

And they were like, you know, I’m sex positive. I can have as much sex as I want. And I was like, I don’t think that being a, you know, sleeping with 20 different people a month. It’s the same thing as sex positivity. And so when I saw this in your book, you know, [00:36:00] it triggered that old anger that I had towards him.

and so I’d like you to just preach on that. 

Vernon: so the thing is, if you wanna be a promiscuous person, be a PROMIS promiscuous person and own that, and just, just be like, look, I love having sex and that’s fine, but that does not necessarily mean that your sex positive, because sex positivity means that regardless of how any person chooses to express their sex, as long as it has consent involved, you don’t care.

You are just like, I’m here for you. I’m not shaming your kinks. I’m not doing anything like that. I want you to be successful in how you out here fucking or not fucking or whatever the case is. Like, you can be out here doing osmosis for all I care. I, if you are, I want to know how the fuck that thing is going on.

Like, teach me how to osmosis bitch. I want to know but like. If in terms of promiscuity, you have to ask yourself, am I promiscuous [00:37:00] because I’m hurt and I’m trying to escape from that in other bodies. Am I finding love in other bodies? Because I don’t love myself. Like what is going on? Like if you’re not, if a person’s not necessarily digging deep to figure out why they’re sleeping with multiple people outside of, I just love the pleasure of it.

Then there’s something that is going on with you that you might need to, you know, check on. Like, I don’t know that person, I can’t write their story, but if, if you have to, here’s my thing. Whenever I have meetings with like past clients and they say I’m the type of person that, okay, this is you scripting who you are.

Rather than showing who you are. I don’t, you don’t have to preface. I’m the type of person that does this all the time. Now, if you choose to do that, I get it. You just wanna make sure people know that this is who you identify as whatever. That’s cool, whatever, but are you really, that person [00:38:00] is your actions meeting up to these words that you’re actually providing to other people.

If you have to start off. Speaking about your sexuality by saying I’m sex positive all the time. You could, you might not be sex positive as you think you are. You probably might be out here shaming, every single person who’s having less sex than you, or more sex than you, or just the same amount. And you just don’t realize it because, Hey, I’m going to use that sets positive.

So I can say something completely shady and off the hinges. And I don’t want anybody to shame me against that or correct me or respond to my personal actions. So it’s like multiple lenses to look at that. But yeah, it’s, it’s definitely not the same thing. One is allowing others to be themselves and the, and the latter is I’m just fucking, be it through trauma, be it through love for self or healing.[00:39:00]

De’Vannon: I challenge everyone to, to search for why. Why they have sex? Like what do you view it as, you know, anybody who, who wants to like, try to have sex with me? I wanna know. Okay. What are your views on sex? What do you get out of it? How, you know, we have to have a conversation in my, when I, my late teens. And it was just like, you have a hard Dick at work, stick it in, you know, but I don’t go back and try to hide behind the norm of sex positivity.

No, I wasn’t being sex positive. I know I was trying to patch up a hurt heart by jumping in the beds of as many men as I could get each week, far more than five sometimes per week. But I never tried to act like it was cute or it was a positive thing. I knew I was damaged, you know, and I was, you know, had a bad relationship with my dad and everything.

And I wanted to find this in the hands of as many masculine men as I could. So I ain’t, I’m never gonna be like, oh, that I was being sex positive. No, I was being, I was taking unnecessary risk because I [00:40:00] didn’t know how to heal. And so. I just wanted to bring that up because I do think that term sex positive gets tossed around at times as an excuse mm-hmm , you know, and it hasn’t been very deeply.

You know, really rung out the way that you just did. And I’m just gonna leave it at your words. Cause I can’t say it no better. 

Vernon: See even on top of that, I, I don’t know if I put this in the book or not. If I did, I forgot I put it in there, but about it’s it’s related to celibacy I know I mentioned, you know, people should be celibate.

Well, try that and you know, experience how they are. If you are a person who’s out here being promiscuous or whatever. Try being celibate and see if you see what advances are, what changes in your life and set the rules of what your celibacy looks like and what some people wanna use abstinence. I don’t care.

It’s interchangeable at this point. I don’t give a damn, but set the rules on what that looks like for you. [00:41:00] But take a break from sex for real and figure out if you really are sex positive or you’re, or you are going through damage. Cause in my, like I lost my Virginia at age 19. Well willingly lost my Virginia at age 19.

And with. With that my body count went from zero to like eight. And this is within like a six month timeframe and I was reflecting and I was like, hold up, I’m out here, wilding. What the fuck is going on with me? That I’m over here just accepting sex from anybody. Who’s actually going to agree to have sex with me.

And by taking that break, it was two and a half years. I learned that. Okay. Yeah, you do have a little bit of sex trauma that you have not dealt with. So you gotta deal with that. You are allowing other people’s what their, their slight embrace of you show [00:42:00] that they do have true affection for you, even though they don’t, you are just, you are out here lowering your standards just for that quick hookup.

You’re better than this. And just taking that time away from sex after having sex allowed me to see myself in a better light and also find a stronger sense of self worth so that when I do go out, go back in these streets, these streets, these days is a mess. So I, I, I, I for Yelp review zero outta zero, I do not recommend these streets are bad.

They need to close down business. Fuck those, fuck the streets. But no, don’t fuck the streets.

streets needs to be celibate y’all, but like, I, I learned so much about myself from taking that break. And even for that friend, take a break, like figure out who you are, figure out what’s really going on, go to therapy and see, and fill that hole that you’re [00:43:00] trying to fill with dicks and come that’s all I’m saying 

De’Vannon: you better preach fetch.

And so. So I wanted to talk about the book, name, you and sent you God on how to be ho I’m always interested in why people title the books as such and in the book, you know, as such they do in the book, you give us a breakdown on the, on the etymology of the word who and why you choose the spell. Ho as H O E not H O.

Vernon: so I, I had to do that because one that, the word ho in general has a special place in my heart because I’ve been caught a hole so many times throughout my life. And this is before I was even sexual y’all like out here ho and hoing. But I, I always was fixated on the fact that, okay, why is it just spelled H O and it, within the black community, we utilize that word in so many different ways.

And even when you [00:44:00] have the horror side, the w H O R E, that has different conjugations that are very grammatically correct. And whenever you look at ho O and you, yeah, you can add, I N G you can add all this other things to it, but it’s, it doesn’t look right. It never looked to be like a correct term.

However, I try to put it places, but whenever you put the E on there, It looks like a word that can be con it can be conjugated. It can be changed. It can be you can use it in different sets of your lives. You know, I am hoing. I was hoing. I hold all of these because you added that extra length of, you know, grammar to it.

So that’s one of the reasons why I decided to, you know, let’s go ahead and use this with the E because one, I I’m, I’m always. Tired by the fact that [00:45:00] in this country, we look at AAV E Ebonics, whatever you wanna call it as though it’s a lesser language as but people don’t realize that a V E is the cornerstone of what’s making American literature in language great.

Like the, the, in like the slang that a lot of people use these days come from what a V E it comes from African American vernacular English. It comes from our interactions with our own people. It comes from our conversations. Like motherfuckers was not out here saying twerk like that. And then, you know, of course, ying yang, TWIs whistle while it’s twerking shit, because yes.

But it’s like we are making the language. So put some respect on our names and make sure that our words that we use in, however we choose to interchange them are grammatical in every single way. 

De’Vannon: Mm, I hope I hope so off the work I go 

Vernon: [00:46:00] yes, yes. I about to put on some like some NEHI heels or some shit.

Cause now, now you got me wonder ho mm. Yes, Lord. So 

De’Vannon: I’m gonna read a quote, which I have a flight amendment to, which I will just point out. So you said from the book, you said for those of you who say that Ahoe is someone especially a woman and I’m gonna add, or a bottom with low morals, jump off your high ass pedestal.

I hope you land in your own business because that is what you need 

Vernon: to mind. Yes. Tell me

De’Vannon: no, tell me why you 

Vernon: said that because everybody who it’s the judgment of it all like you out here calling women holes because they’re having sex with multiple people. Why cuz men are praised for doing the same thing. [00:47:00] So you’re obviously putting yourself on a higher standard or a higher pedestal than other people who are doing the exact same thing.

As you jump off. If this person is considered a low standard, because they’re doing what you’re doing, get the fuck off you don’t deserve to be up there. Jump into your own fucking business. Mind your business, mind your motherfucking business. Cause Hey, I look, this is how well I tell people I did not give you a dime quarter or penny, so I’m not paying for you to be over here.

So mind the business that pays you

De’Vannon: yes. You know, this reminds me of like from the Hebrew Bible when Jesus was going through the village and there was the town who, whatever everyone was gonna stone, because in their opinion, she had had too much, Dick slept with too many married. Men had too much sex or whatever. 

Vernon: Jesus found me. I know.

Yeah. He 

De’Vannon: found two girls and he also loose you and said, he who is without [00:48:00] saying Casa for his stone and they couldn’t say anything. You know, my whole thing is this. She didn’t become the town whore by masturbating. You know, the man in the, somebody had to help her along this journey to, to reach the status to reach this level in her life.

And so in society, you know, if a woman is shame or a bottom is shame, you know, it’s like, so even me, you know, when I used to run around Baton Rouge, high on meth, trying to get Dick from all these different guys, you know, I developed a bad reputation, but my whole thing was this. I wasn’t doing the drugs by myself.

I wasn’t the only one in the damn room and whatever sex I did have. I didn’t reach my own Dick around and stick it into my own asshole. So, I


Vernon: I’m fucking somebody. 

De’Vannon: So I, I am fucking somebody I’m doing the drugs with somebody, you know, or seven guys could fuck the [00:49:00] same girl at the same time, which is totally cool if that’s what eight people wanna do, but why is she the slut? But the seven dicks that was just in her are not.

Vernon: you came here and you came, like, I’m the ALU because I’m the one who wanted to have all this pleasure. Do you just fuck the most of, for those who are who love breeding kinks? Were you just fucking six other niggas? I don’t know if I can say it on your, I’m sorry. You can say anything you want.

Dar my God, were you the one that was coming back and fucking six other motherfuckers come out, out, out out of this pussy, this asshole, whatever you, this mouth where, where you were your children, your could have been the board of children swimming all up in this, over here. but I’m the whore. I’m the who aren’t you?

The [00:50:00] one. Fuck the, who, what does that make you, if you think I’m bad. And you’re fucking the whore. So does that mean you’re less than the whore? Are you upset about that? Come on, let’s talk about it. You can lay your hand on this Dick. Okay. Lay your head on the Dick. That’s all you need to do. Yes, please. The whore, continue to please the who

De’Vannon: and enough said on that. So, and I guess, no, it’s not cuz you know, people. You mentioned this in your book in several places that basically the nega, when people spew negativity towards other people, it’s reflecting a fracture and brokenness within that person, who’s keeping the negativity. I heard it said this way.

You can’t give away what you don’t have. So when you are broken, you go about the business of trying to find fault other people, another version of this seven guys to go and fuck the same girl or bottom or whatever. And just be like, you know what? That was a good experience. The end. You don’t have to have the negative [00:51:00] adjectives thrown in there to try to, to try to make yourself.

You shouldn’t have to step on somebody else to make yourself feel better. You know, you have a damn problem. Why can’t you just be a really fun girl and y’all have a bunch of fun guys. And it was a thing. It was great. And you hope to do it again. Why do you have to go and drag her through the mud? 

Vernon: Like why , you know, we came here for sex and we had sex.

And was, did you enjoy yourself? If the answer’s yes. Great. If the answer’s no. Okay. Then we don’t have to meet up again. Right. 

De’Vannon: Because what would, what would the guys do if all the women and all the bottoms closed, we closed our legs up and decided not to let you in anymore because we, we get tired of you talking about us.

Y’all not gonna to fuck each other because y’all were so like anti having your assholes entered some of y’all, you know, then what would you do? You know, when we were, if we’re no longer available, if we’re no longer an option, 

Vernon: all I gotta say. If you were bottom out here [00:52:00] on these streets, find you another bottom because the sex is better and ask that on that start a relationship and everything.

And then if you feel as though you need a top and open up your relationship, use that motherfucker don’t make it P. They can’t get right. They don’t deserve you for the women out here. Get you some girlfriends. Those who like who are into women, of course get you some girlfriends, enjoy your time. If you need to get the fleshy Dick every now and again, open up your relationship, invite that motherfucker in and then let ’em go and see and see how long it takes until these motherfuckers get their lives straight.

What, what did they say in that made movie click


De’Vannon: they might be right. They may not be, it is no longer our concern. Well, what did people say? So in your book, you said you poll your friends, your [00:53:00] family, and you even said passers by how they define. A ho and your results were ultimately kind of like inconclusive. What did you find that people were saying?

The two that stood out to me was people to find a ho as somebody who’s had sex with more than five people, I thought that was a random ass number for someone to come up with. And then the other one was somebody oh, it was a, a bitch. You would lose pussy . 

Vernon: So , I had a whole Google doc of people’s responses.

And even on these apps, looking at what people say are what they called other people holes for almost definitely back back in the day on Jack reading people’s profiles and talking about, oh, I don’t fuck with holes. And then they have a description of what the hole is supposed to be. All of that provided a lot of good details on where people think now the numbers people, that’s the thing that really got me now.

I just use [00:54:00] five as like a well, whatever number I use as just a, a relative sample, but people would have some random as numbers. Oh. If they had sex with six people. Okay. How many people have you had sex with? Like, how’s that a person that’s a whole that’s. The more bodies you have, the more experienced points, just make sure you being safe out here.

That’s all, that’s all get your experience, points up, be level 99. I don’t give a damn but it’s like, why, why do you have a set number? Like, is it, and it’s rarely even one person, like, it’s not like if they have sex with one person they’re automatically a whole. And I think the reason why it was never one is because the person who’s providing that definition had sex at least once.

And they don’t want to see themselves as being, you know, a whore just because they had a failed relationship with somebody or because they had a hookup with [00:55:00] somebody and it didn’t work out. And I, and I think some of it also stems from the thought that some guys just don’t want to date a version to.

So having that. Window of having at least your first sexual experience, you know, that they’ve been out there a little bit. So just having that one person means that, okay, they’ve had it before now. They have some idea. I hope it was bad. So whenever I’m with them, I can give them the good Dick and they can stay with me or whatever.

And then there were also those people cuz over the years I learned that men tend to go this was also another research thing that I looked into, but men tend to overestimate their sexual partners and women underestimate their [00:56:00] sexual partners solely to make men more comfortable when they do talk about their sexuality or, or their sexual histories.

So I think that’s where, why, you know, you get those. Random ass numbers, because they’re either trying to

not project that they view themselves as a whole, because they’ve had so many bodies. So they trying to put project the responsibility of not being a whole onto the woman or it’s whatever. Now, in terms of what was the other part? Oh loose as pussies.

That one always bothered me because that tells me that this person doesn’t even know the basis of anatomy and how the VO the vaginal canal or the anus works. Cause it’s no such thing as a loose pussy. It’s just, your Dick might not be as [00:57:00] big as you thought it was. You got open space. You’re not comfortable with that.

Now there is , somebody’s triggered. There is a such thing as, you know, it being is lacking elasticity and that can be due to tearing that can be caused by somebody not respecting the other person’s body enough to let them relax properly so that they keep the tightness of whatever sex order you’re using.

Or it can just be them having multiple sex, but within the day it should usually. Is right back normal. Now if you have sex with someone with like a girthy penis, then it might take a couple days, but it usually doesn’t take SU such a long time for the anal canal or even the vaginal canal to just, you know, restrict [00:58:00] back to its normal size.

So loose, vaginas and loose anus is, is not really a thing.

De’Vannon: WP WP w that’s some wet ass pussy. That’s

So you mentioned the word consent earlier, but y’all in his book. He actually, I felt like preached a whole sermon about consent. It’s like, it is really a soapbox, you know, a hill that you’re willing to die on. So I want you to dig deeper into why the fuck consent is such a big deal and spin in what rape culture is.

Oh, child. You, 

Vernon: you asking me to do all my research in this podcast, Lord. Geez. Okay. so yeah, consent. That is definitely the soapbox. I will definitely dial on and be proud. And y’all not going to take me down because that legacy’s going live on it. Just like try if you want to. But like the importance [00:59:00] of consent is that many people don’t even know how complex consent is.

It’s a very simple, yet complex thing. So of course, yes. Means yes, no means no, and maybe does not exist, but that’s not all like there’s a legal side of consent and then there’s a personal side of consent. Legally, if you decide to have drunk sex with the partner, like. You’re conscious, conscious, and you’re able to articulate yourself and be responsible at the same time.

Legally just because you had a sip of alcohol and you had sex with that person, or that person had sex with you, they broke the law. But in terms of personal autonomy, you have not done anything wrong. You did what you were wanting to do with somebody that you trusted. So that’s another discussion.

And on top of that because we are not taught what consent is, we often do things that are violations to other people’s [01:00:00] Bodies for instance, those people who think that just because my partner said yes they cannot end sex at any time or just because they said yes to sex. That means I can take the condom off.

That’s not consent. That is not they do not know that you’re doing that. And even using that excuse which some people have used on me before. You didn’t feel that I wasn’t. No condoms are made thin as fuck. You have bare skin condoms for that reason to, so that the person who is penetrating it feels essentially as though they there’s no barrier there for the most part.

So. Most people don’t feel it. If you do not have a condom on or not. Now, if it’s a thick as Magnum condom, more than likely a person might feel it, but there’s no guarantee. So expecting them to be responsible with telling you not to have sex with them without a [01:01:00] condom, because you took it off is inappropriate because you’re the one who has the condom on already.

You have to communicate with communicate that with your sexual partner, if not, you violated their bodies. And even having that discussion may trigger a person because now they think of themselves as being a rapist which is also something within rape culture that I’m probably gonna get into. Well, I’m definitely gonna get into rape culture a lot deeper, but now this person think that they’re a rapist.

They definitely sexually assaulted a person when it comes to rape there’s power, that has to be present there’s What else you need power. You also have to have a higher level of aggression rate, myth, acceptance. And you also, there’s a lot of factors to it. Dominance authority within that situation, there’s a lot [01:02:00] and not all rates are violent.

Let’s put it that way, but there’s a lot of factors that do go into making a rape. It doesn’t necessarily mean that you are a rapist if you do that, but you did sexual assault. Somebody, there we go deal with the consequences of those actions. I’m not here. I’m not your lawyer. I can’t tell you exactly what that’s gonna be now.

In terms of rape culture that is just a culture that minimizes and accept. Rape or any kind of sexual assaults. Most definitely those that go come against women and rape culture has different factors to it that can be victim blaming. That can be SLU, shaming, that can be sexualized jokes.

It can be who’s been a while. It can be alcohol usage and drug usage to intoxicated person so that you can [01:03:00] have sex with the, with them without the intent of having their consent, their their express consent. It can be the violent side of rape. It’s so much shit rape culture in general has over, oh, hyper masculinity is part of rape culture, but it has more than like 14 or so factors to it. And part of my research, just to put that out there is I learned after I completed my dissertation that I wrote on systemic rape culture.

And that is how rape culture presents itself in different systems that can be within the workplace policy creation, government entities, our businesses, our police officers, all of that. So, yeah, it’s, rape culture, but we, we see it in our everyday lives. You might see. Through [01:04:00] a court case where a victim is sexually assaulted and the perpetrator only gets like two months because rape is seen as a less serious a less serious offense than murder or shoot.

It’s a less serious offense than like carrying marijuana. So, yeah. 

De’Vannon: Okay. Thank you for the breakdown. And look, don’t be worried about if you can’t couldn’t remember all the points, you know, like they say in church, you just tell on it, you can’t tell at all tell 

Vernon: true, true 

De’Vannon: people wanna know more, you know, they can reach out to you and stuff like that.

Cuz we not trying to give away the whole M you know, just a little teaser, people need to go buy the thing child you’re right. So and so. Talk to me from the book about the game. Now I had never heard this shit broken down like this before. And I think I may have played this game before and certainly have been involved in it.[01:05:00]

Now you described the game as a childish behavior for supposed adults. And another quote, you said the term scoring game of fun sexuality and sexual encounters. It provides a point value that does not fully equate to the full value of a person and their self worth preach about the game. 

Vernon: So the game, the game, the game, it’s all like, like you said, it’s all about scoring.

It’s how many bodies can I catch? How many people can I have sex with essentially is about how can I influence this person to think that, oh, look, I love you. I want to be with you. I’ll be your world. I can bring this to you. I can make you feel satisfied. I just wanna be your man to ease a person.

And I know somebody was just like, hold up burden. Yeah, I can get that but but they can [01:06:00]they F tend to fall for the person and have that expectation that they want something more than just the sex and then they have sex with that person and just leave them. And that’s, that’s the why I say you have a point system that does not equate to a person’s self worth, because they’re more than just that sexual act.

This is a whole person you’re emotionally manipulating this person, just so that you can have sex with them and then to leave them high and dry, just because you can just because you felt as though your sexual desires was so strong, that it doesn’t matter how. What you, what wreck you leave that person in?

And the game is played by men and women. So let’s, let’s be clear about that. Cuz I know some some women who literally said, oh, you know what, I’m gonna doubt dog, these NIS out. Like they be dogging us out and I get, I get where that hurt comes [01:07:00] from. I get why you need to do that. But figure. Why you’re hurt and figure out how you can avoid that nigga that you’re referring to.

That hurt you back in the past, that making you wanna do this so that you can do better. And for the men who’s been thoughted by women deal with your hurt. So you can figure out why exactly you were hurt and then do better with your lives. Because this is something I had to tell a student of mine in the past.

You’re going to be out here focusing on dogging these people out, just because this one girl hurt, hurt you so bad that when you meet that one person who challenges you, who bring so much worth to you, you’re so focused on trying to find the trick to find the, oh, when is she going to, you know, like dog me out like that old girl did 20 or so years ago that she’s gonna leave you.

And within months, within weeks within days, you’re gonna [01:08:00] realize that you fucked up something good. You will never get that back. All because you wanted to play these damn games. 

De’Vannon: So what he’s saying y’all is to stop perpetuating the negativity and to find out why and, and, and to stop being willing to be so damn childish.

I agree with you on that. The games people play just to be about what you’re about, you know, or if it says in the Hebrew Bible that the Lord is not mocked whatsoever, man. So that also will he reap, so you can’t play these games and twist these people’s hearts and just make people a number at another body count.

Oh, that was just meaningless sex. I just fuck them. It was whatever that person didn’t mean. Anything to me. And then you think one day is gonna come where you’re gonna settle down and have you a nice, happy relationship. No bitch. Your dirt coming back to you at some damn point mm-hmm 

Vernon: now for some 

De’Vannon: reason, it’s hard.

It’s coming fast and hard. And so within this Breakdown [01:09:00] of the game. You separated the roster though, and you wanted the roster to be different. You gave it his own chapter. And I found it. I don’t let me see, I don’t know if I quite curious, interesting and titillating and I don’t really have the exact word for it, but you used a basketball game.

The way basketball players are positioned to, to reference this. I don’t know this fucking much about sports. I have to say, sir, I’m gonna call you sir, in this moment that I am very. Impress that, you know what, like I’m not expecting that you like wouldn’t know, but at the same time, I don’t talk to very many people who know what, like a point guard is and all this I’m all like, I didn’t know you had all this shit going on on a basketball court.

And so, so tell us what a roster is and how you related basketball. 

Vernon: so I have to, I have to be completely honest. I don’t know a lot about basketball, but I do know small forward in a point guard. That’s all, that’s, that’s pretty [01:10:00] much the gist of my basketball lingo

and I also refuse to look at football because it’s way too many positions. And if anybody trying to have a football roster, look more fucking power to you. If you could have that meaning niggas on your fucking team. Oh my God. I cannot

my roster might just be a couple golfs. Basketball is a little bit more relatable. But like in terms of like building the roster, it’s just figuring out who these people are that you are wanting to engage with on an ongoing basis. And also knowing what you’re looking for in these people. Like if you’re out here dating and you’re dating multiple people just to figure out what it is that you like or what it is that you want in a relationship, you can utilize like the same structure to figure that out.

Who do I have a great connection with in terms of [01:11:00] communication is this person going to be the person that I talk to on the, on, on a regular basis to see how that goes? If you just want somebody who has a high sex drive that can match your energy because you also have a high sex drive, you can make that person your point guard because you look, you know, this is somebody you can always have.

This is somebody that you can have sex with on a regular basis. You can get that energy out while you are pursuing. What other things that you’re looking for. Do you want somebody who’s going to be a cuddle buddy, if that’s it, because you want that physical connection where you can either talk to that person, watch movies with that person, but not have anything romantic in that.

Go for it. If it’s just somebody that you can go out to eat lunch with, do it, like figure out who it is, who you are as a person, what you like and what you look for in a partner. Even if those same people that’s on your roster. Are [01:12:00] fully aware that they’re not going to be involved in anything romantic with you that you’re not looking to date them long term.

Look, they know that at the beginning, that’s the important thing about the roster. And that’s another reason why I split the chapters up is because here discussing the game, you’re figuring out all the childish things, what being anonymous is working in the realms of anonymity of wherever this relationship is supposed to be.

We just talking, we’re not dating. We’re just fucking, we’re not dating we’re, but you know, you’re doing all the boyfriend things , but you’re not trying to gimme that that title. All all within the game deal with your insecurities fail, but it’s like, that’s part of the reason why I had it separated so that you can understand this over here.

This mentality is completely different from what you can be out here doing, which is respecting the people that you’re be choosing to be intimate with that you’re [01:13:00] choosing to get to know and who you’re are well, you know, in the long run deciding who you want to be with in a partnership, either it be with one person or multiple.

De’Vannon: I appreciate the roster and the effort that it takes to put one together. You know? So a, roster’s a list of people who you value and you see them as more than just a piece of flesh, you know, mm-hmm whereas the game is about, as they say, this is meaningless says, or this didn’t mean anything. It really burns me up when people toss around sex.

Like, I don’t think it’s ever meaningless. If you take your body, which is a priceless instrument that God gave you, even, you don’t believe that God gave you, you only get one in a lifetime. If you don’t believe that, you know, in anything spiritual, you only get one damn body. And so to say that you’re gonna take your body, allow someone else to do whatever with it, or you do to someone else, whatever sex always goes both ways.

It’s not just one person doing something to someone [01:14:00] else and to come out of that and say, well, that didn’t mean anything or, you know, you, you know, I just, that just really, really. Fucking angers me mm-hmm and the effort, even with the roster as positive intended as it is, I wanna challenge people to put this same amount of energy that we put into fucking finding people to have sexual encounters with, into our mental health and into our spiritual health.

So in mental health, we talk about all, you know, all the time as we have an issue about why this is needed and necessary. Hiding from our pain and stuff and how it comes out. You know, we put, so we spend so much time on these apps so much damn time in and out of people’s houses. We fucking I’ve done it before, you know, going back, you know, I was fucking a part-time job working 40 hours a week and fucking 30 hours a week.

you know, to include doing all the research and everything like that, you know? So I’ve wanted to challenge people, [01:15:00] particularly though about spiritual growth to say, you do believe in God or whatever entity or deity. I want you to be sure that you are growing. And yes, spiritual growth is not yours. The grant is up to God when he grows you, but you could at least reach out for him harder and harder.

So what I’m saying is this, if this year you, you praying maybe like a couple of seconds, whenever you think about it, every now and then, and you blowing the dust off your Bible, maybe once or twice, every three months, maybe next year, you could like maybe pray for like 15 minutes, two or three days a week, and maybe actually read the Bible for five minutes once a month.

And then maybe the next year, you maybe add a little bit more prayer time in Bible time. I’m saying that’s just an example, but whatever works for you find some quantifiable way to know that every year you’re trying harder to get closer to God. And so what I’m saying is we can make all this plan, spend all this money to go and fuck, you know, why can’t we go after God, just as 

Vernon: aggressively I’m with [01:16:00] you on that.

I’m with you on that, like the, like you said, the amount of energy we put into just to engage in sex. And we just forget about everything else within our lives is it’s ridiculous. It’s ridiculous. Like just imagine how beneficial it would be for somebody to focus more on their own individual personal growth versus who’s gonna be in my bed tonight.

De’Vannon: And remember y’all we, I can’t, yeah. I mean, yeah, I, yeah. and remember, y’all Vernon are telling you these things are not mutually exclusive. You can have your roster and be a sex positive person, but also. Have your positive mental health and your strong spiritual life too. We’re telling you, as they said in my, in, in my, in my, in my movie, I love so much road trip, bitch.

You really can have it [01:17:00] all you can, but don’t really can, but don’t leave God on the shelf until you need him for something, because nobody likes to be called upon just when a motherfucker wants some shit from them. 

Vernon: Mm-hmm now, unless they consented to it, because look, I do have my regular

gosh, look. And just so y’all the podcast. Cause I do bring ’em up on my show, but it’s like, even with that situation, it’s like, we’ve communicated that this is not gonna be anything romantic. This is just gonna be mainly sexual. They don’t like, he don’t like me to go into his personal life. So I don’t go into it where if there’s a message that is introduced between him or me, it is okay.

How you doing? What’s your availability looking like, when are we gonna be able to hook up? And that’s pretty much it, that’s it. And guess what? Life is good.

De’Vannon: Let it be good then. So I [01:18:00] mentioned, we both mentioned like the dating out, so I just wanted to drop a warning on people about those, you know, about these. So just be careful when you go in and out of people’s houses that you don’t know there’s the disease factor. Yes. Cause you know, when people, people don’t really tend to brag about the bad experiences they have on dating apps, all of your friends and everybody wanna make it seem like it’s always a good experiences.

They pounding all the ass and getting all the pussy, getting all the Dick. And everything’s great. What I’ve observed is that when people get diseases and shit like that on these apps, they either keep fucking, and don’t tell nobody, or if it gets serious, they’ll just disappear. And go intend to their health and not say anything, or if they show up to somebody’s house and they get robbed or jacked up some type of way, they won’t tell you, you know?

So sometimes when you you’ve seen that guy in that square for months, you know, you have your regulars on these apps and suddenly they’re not there anymore. Sometimes some shit didn’t went down. So I’m just [01:19:00] reminding y’all be safe, you know, be careful about going to people’s houses. You’ve never met before they could have cameras set up.

They could have motherfuckers wait, and I’m not saying get paranoid, but I’m just saying, understand, you don’t know them. 

Vernon: So you’re right. You’re right. You gotta vet motherfucker. You have to, you have to vet the people that you’re planning on hooking up with all the time actually. And one of the things that I used to do is like, if I, you know, somebody’s like, oh, can you scoop me up or whatever?

I’m like, okay, cool. But I don’t stop. I do not stop my vehicle until I see a person that I like, look, this person kind of, they look like that person that I’m supposed to be picking up. Okay. But my vehicle does not stop. I would do a full circle and come right back around and scoop your ass up. But my vehicle does not stop for nobody, cuz y’all not pulled up on this degree.

No we don’t play that. but like you really do have to think about your safety on these [01:20:00] apps. Your safety is always important and keep that a priority regardless of how fine the person is. 

De’Vannon: Again, so much effort we put into busting a nut and or to having positive sexual experiences on whatever level that may be whatever level of depth and yeah.

Cause a lot of these, some of these, some of these people who have like say done these mass shootings and a lot of these like straight identifying men who molest children are actually like hot, you know, like they’re not, you know, some of them look like I totally would’ve gotten Dick from them, but they like fucking crazy too.

So like, which is not all about a look. So. Okay. So then the last thing I wanted to talk about, so in chapter seven, you break down how to actually be a, a ho an OE. So without giving too much away, I want you to give like a synopsis. You know what it means to actually, what, what are some of the steps someone would take to actually become a ho?

And [01:21:00] then I want you to tell us your definition of yourself as a whole. 

Vernon: So, you know, I wanna give two definitions. So one from a book and then my own personal definition. But I would say the synopsis of becoming Ahoe is working on yourself understand your mental health, understand your sexual health, understand your physical health, understand all aspects of yourself.

And then, you know, going out there and enjoying yourself, like, who are you and who are you in sexual spaces? What is it? The things that you find pleasure in, what is your sexual wants? What are your sexual needs? What is it that you want with every single sexual encounter when you figure that. There you go welcome to welcome to being a whole now in terms of the book, just give that definition out there.

A ho is a no, it’s a adjective. It’s a verb. So keep that in mind people. [01:22:00] But I’m just gonna read the, the, now a ho is any individual, regardless of gender identity, who chooses to live a sex positive lifestyle free of the judgment and shame of outside influencers embraces and owns the full extent of their sexuality.

So you have that. So if you feel as though that you’ve met that requirement, Hey, ho how you doing love to love to have you love to meet you? I, I love ho me and ho get, get along very well. now in terms of myself and my wholeness, it is all about being sexually free and open and just not feel ashamed of being who you are and having conversations with people about what you want and taking ownership of if you are looking to be in my bedroom and you think that I’m going to accept less than then you might as well, not even come because you don’t need to be here.

I can have sex with myself and it would definitely be better than what you’re gonna bring and that. [01:23:00] You 

De’Vannon: better work so, so I just wanted to point it to, out to everyone that my boy here also wrote a poetry book that he kind of snuck into the book, kind of like how song artists would do like that bonus track at the end of the CD.

And after the last main track plays, if you let the CD keep rolling, then this whole other song would pop up out the fuck nowhere and you’d know where the hell it came from. And so this book is called pros from a soul seeking justice in the electronic world, it’s a separate book on Amazon, which I’m gonna put a link to that in the show notes.

There’s only $2 and 99 cents. I might as well scoop it up. And then if you get the print version, then you get the. The essential God out, how to be a whole [01:24:00] plus the pros from a soul seeking justice, poetry book all together. And I’m gonna put the links for all of that in the show notes as well. So I wanted to let y’all know Vernon into the poet too.

And and I look forward to more creative works from you in the future. So thank you for coming on this show. I’ll let you have last words. So what the Lord use you? 

Vernon: Well, first off, thank you so much for having me and definitely y’all. I recommend to every person get the printed version. And I like how you say, you know, artists doing, you know, a little bit extra something there with do plan on doing audio book and within that audio book, cuz I love experiences.

I love giving my audience a fucking experience. I, I am planning on doing a little bit something extra with the audio book and I’m not gonna include any other readings, other poems. So I look, I wrote those for other people to get their own messages. You don’t need to get the reading from Bernie. I know that’s how you’re [01:25:00] supposed to read poetry from the artists themselves, but you know, fuck it.

I’m not doing it, but yeah, so that’s coming up and even just to mention that that was a journey through trauma journey through growth. In a journey through just finding myself and finding happiness for that, those, the poems. But if you out here, you want to be a ho definitely get the book, but dig deep into who you are, figure out who you are as a sexual being.

Enjoy it. Love yourself, own who you are, find your own self worth and do not accept less than anything from anyone who cannot afford you. And that’s my message to everybody.

De’Vannon: Amen. And amen.

Thank you all so much for taking time to listen to the sex drugs in Jesus podcast. It really means [01:26:00] everything to me. Look, if you love the show, you can find more information and resources at SexDrugsAndJesus.com or wherever you listen to your podcast. Feel free to reach out to me directly at DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com and on Twitter and Facebook as well.

My name is De’Vannon and it’s been wonderful being your host today and just remember that everything is gonna be right.








Leave a Comment

Scroll to Top
Scroll to Top