Episode #70: Life As An Abused/Isolated Child, How Shame Impacts Mental Health, Failures Of The Church & Knowing You Are NOT ALONE, With Jenn Junod, Host Of The Sh!t You Don’t Want To Talk About Podcast



Jenn has a story of her own. As a child, she suffered solitary confinement, physical abuse, mental abuse, sexual abuse, rape, divorce, abortion, cutting, and suicide attempts. Her turbulent background has forged a path to help those who are suffering, ignored and silenced. Sh!t You Don’t Want to Talk About is a place people can come to find hope and healing, to know they are not alone, and to finally be heard. 

Clearly, Jenn’s been through plenty of sh!t most people probably don’t want to even acknowledge, let alone talk about. She thought she’d dealt with her past, but brain surgery in November 2020 unleashed a tsunami of memories that couldn’t be ignored. Working through trauma, depression, anxiety, bipolar type 2, and ADHD will be a lifelong journey. Jenn strives to break the stigma of Sh!t You Don’t Talk About and turn it into Sh!t 2 Talk About.



INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to):



·      Let’s Talk About The Elephant In The Room

·      The Effects Of Shame On Mental Health

·      The Importance Of Not Feeling Alone

·      The Usefulness Of Vision Board

·      Let’s Have Boundaries With Family, Shall We?

·      Why God, Church & Religion Are Separate

·      A Super Moving Abortion Story

·      Surviving A Suicide Attempt

·      Child Abuse Trauma

·      A Glimpse Into The Cult Of Christianity Podcast




Website: https://www.Shit2talkabout.com

LinkTree: https://linktr.ee/shit2talkabout

TikTok: tiktok.com/@shit2talkabout

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/shit2talkabout/

YouTube: https://bit.ly/3BRnT50

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/shit2talkabout/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shit2talkabout/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/shit2talkabout





Website: https://www.SexDrugsAndJesus.com

Website: https://www.DownUnderApparel.com

YouTube: https://bit.ly/3daTqCM

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SexDrugsAndJesus/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sexdrugsandjesuspodcast/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/TabooTopix

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devannon

Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.es/SexDrugsAndJesus/_saved/

Email: DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com





·      Pray Away Documentary (NETFLIX)


TRAILER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_CqGVfxEs


·      OverviewBible (Jeffrey Kranz)




·      Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed (Documentary)



·      Leaving Hillsong Podcast With Tanya Levin




·      Upwork: https://www.upwork.com

·      FreeUp: https://freeup.net




·      Disabled American Veterans (DAV): https://www.dav.org

·      American Legion: https://www.legion.org


·      What The World Needs Now (Dionne Warwick): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfHAs9cdTqg





·      PodMatch is awesome! This application streamlines the process of finding guests for your show and also helps you find shows to be a guest on. The PodMatch Community is a part of this and that is where you can ask questions and get help from an entire network of people so that you save both money and time on your podcasting journey.







You’re listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to! And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right at the end of the day. My name is De’Vannon and I’ll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world as we dig into topics that are too risqué for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what’s really going on in your life.

There is nothing off the table and we’ve got a lot to talk about. So let’s dive right into this episode.

De’Vannon: Jenn Junod is the host of the shit. You don’t want to talk about podcast, but baby, we’ve got some shit to talk about today. This girl is here to serve up some vulnerable and transparent realness y’all and she’s doing it in a way that’s so sincere. And so heartfelt that even on myself was taken aback.

This girl has been through all kinds of shit in her life from child [00:01:00] abuse, to mental abuse, to rape divorce, and. She’s got an abortion story that would make anyone with a heart cry or at least feel something for God’s.

Please listen to what Jen has to say. Been heart and an open mind and share it with someone you care about.

 Hello? Hello. Hello everyone. Welcome back to the sex drugs and fucking Jesus podcast. I have with me, the lovely gen ALD of the, of the, of the shit. You don’t want to talk about podcast, bitch. How you doing today? 

Jenn: delightful, especially since, you know, last night we did the first live with you and I was fangirling so hard that I was like, just stumbling all over myself and I’m just like, yay.

We’re [00:02:00] gonna do it again next week. So I am delightful. It’s like, you know, the day after. 

De’Vannon: Yeah, that after glow, like we had some red, hot monkey sex all night then we’ll do it again and again and again, and everyone gets to watch. And so, so today we’re gonna be talking about Jen’s life history. Her podcast, I think is a fabulous name shit you don’t want to talk about.

And you look gorgeous by the way. I love the hair. I love the plows, the tits, everything is just great. And so yeah, I was going through the titles on your podcast and I was like, this could have been like, like we could do like a podcast swap and switch the names from sex, drugs, and Jesus to yours.

And it would both fit because yes, I love how you’re cover. Very taboo topics and very things that are usually off the kitchen [00:03:00] table. Although it’s still at the kitchen table, this it’s just not being stated. So I think you and I agree that the elephant is the room is pro in the room is probably the most important thing to not miss out on.

So, so your show is titled shit. You don’t wanna talk about, which is all about the elephant in the room. So why, why, why should the elephant in the room not be ignored 

Jenn: when you ignore the elephant and skirt around it, go hi, you know, go around the Bush. What, however you want to say it. It, a lot of it has to do with shame.

And when you create shame, it causes. So much more mental health issues that can there’s a book that I absolutely adore called the body, keeps the score where when you go through trauma, it can cause many mental health issues and can cause autoimmune [00:04:00] diseases. And I feel like on so many podcasts that I’ve, I’ve been on and of guests that have been on the show, we have Brene brown to really think of streamlining a lot more about the knowledge around shame and being able to start talking about it.

So therefore we’re not hiding behind it anymore. And it’s something that I never meant to always talk about. It’s just, I always felt really awkward at parties or meeting people. And the only people I really connected with was when we were talking about real shit, not talking about the weather.

De’Vannon: Talking about real shit. I sometimes I think about a lot of how back when I got HIV and everything, if I wouldn’t have felt so alone, if me and my friends were talking about real shit, but instead we were too busy judging everyone else. We were too busy being, you know, cute little gaze running from club to [00:05:00] club and doing a bunch of cocaine in the bathroom all the time.

And you know, but we never really no judgment against being a cute little gay running from club, the club, doing cocaine in the bathroom far. Be it for me to judge you. I would’ve been your dealer back in the day, but my whole thing is while we were starting all the cocaine and partying it up and judging everyone else, we should have also been.

It would’ve served us better if we would’ve also been vulnerable about our problems, you know? And then when I got HIV, I wouldn’t have thought I was the only one running around with it when probably half the damn people in the bathroom, starting to cocaine with me either also had it too. So, or knew someone who, you know, who had it.

There was no reason for me to have this sense of isolation. And that’s a huge thing that I. A trend with you and your writings on your website and your videos, especially your TikTok videos. Okay. Everyone needs to check out her TikTok channel, wanna list everything in the showy notes from the hair and the makeup and all the goddamn [00:06:00] sequence that you’re dazzling with.

And she, she is a straight ally, but my God is her pride flag fly high. 

Jenn: I, I met some friends at, at pride this year and she sent in a group chat of, you know I’m queer, but I hate, I hate bright colors and I’m like, so can I get a shirt that matches yours and says, I’m not queer, but I love bright colors.

And she’s like, yes, we need to go and match with that because I absolutely love everything bright and color. 

De’Vannon: Bright and colorful and shiny and new that sort of shit is for you. Ooh. I 

Jenn: love 

De’Vannon: that. and so thank you. And so a common theme that I see is this whole you are not alone thing. Talk, talk to me about why it’s so important for you to reiterate the fact that people are not alone.

Jenn: Something that [00:07:00] I, I also want to, to answer that that is coming up for me is when you mention going club to club and you know, stewarding Coke or that’s a lot of times for many of us. Yes. It can be fun. Yeah. A lot of times it’s us hiding behind something and I know for myself, In the past, it was like self harm.

I was a cutter. I have suicide attempts getting in very, very bad situations. I never did well with drugs, which come to find out. It’s probably because I’m bipolar type too, which apparently that makes you not as drugs and alcohol don’t mix as well. I don’t know. Maybe I was just like way too depressed all the time to do them.

But I, I mentioned that because when we think about our coping strategies, we are taught coping [00:08:00] strategies from someone somewhere. If it’s like I was gonna say media, but now it’s probably social media. We are taught about it from our parents, from school, from TV, from friends. And that can be taught that we are alone.

because of that shame because we don’t know anybody else that’s going through it. And a big reason that I always come back to people are not alone, is from the ages of two to about eight. I was locked in my room for weeks on end in solitary confinement. I had like the potty potty bowls, like the potty training, like toilets, like for little kids.

And that’s what I had to use. There were times where I didn’t have anything in my room. There were times where I started and my dad took away all of my [00:09:00] toys and the first night I got my sleeping bag. The second night I got to have my Teddy bear or a pillow. And I wanted baby, my Teddy bear because I knew.

I felt so alone. And I knew what it was like when my best friend would go around the side of the house and talk to me when my dad was throwing pool parties. And I never ever want anyone to feel that alone because just because we’re in this situation and it can be any shitty situation. And there are people out there that care it’s a lot of times, at least from what I’ve seen from so many individuals is figuring out for ourselves that we’re not alone to push through it.

And then we like end up finding people that are willing. Like we attract people that want to help. That sounds a little blue. Woo. [00:10:00] But it’s like our vibe changes. 

De’Vannon: There’s nothing wrong with some spirituality, honey, because the spiritual things affect. Everything. And just like the, the elephant in a room that doesn’t get spoken about that yet, he really affects everyone in the room, spiritual and mental and emotional things are the same way.

So the things we do physically are gonna say more than a manifestation of what came up inside of us first. So if you wanna call it woo, woo or whatever, who, whoever the hell, who, you know, you know, do not deny it’s importance, embrace that shit, you know? Yes. We change our vibes. We change what we attract to us, you know our expectations.

It’s like, if you don’t believe in yourself and you walk into a room, I’ll crest, fall letting sad and wearing boring colors and shit, then people are not likely to believe in you as well. [00:11:00] But if you change your vibe and the way you think about yourself, then when you walk into the room, because you believe in yourself now, Everyone else will believe in you too.

And then you only have your haters of course, but you know, that just comes along with success and strength. So , 

Jenn: and that is a lot easier said than done of changing your vibe and your mindset. And that’s like a story for another day. I just wanna call out that it’s not always that easy of just like changing your vibration and bam everything’s fixed.

It does definitely take time, 

De’Vannon: takes time and dedication and and learning a new path, you know, because you know, you learn to be defeated, self defeating and things like that. A lot of times when we’re young and we don’t realize we’re taking on these habits, so now you gotta relearn how to live. And I use the vision board.

I put pictures on my wall of how I wanted [00:12:00] to be, cuz I had to transition from being homeless and having nothing and spinning out control to having. Solid life that is structured into having prosperity and everything. And I put colorful pictures of everything, and I use that to reshape and to reframe the way I, I think about thought about myself and I still keep it to this day.

So that’s just one thing that worked for me. I recommend vision boards you know, and a lot of prayer and fasting and calling on the Lord. And we know whoever your higher power is connecting with that in whatever way you want to do it. But on a more practical level, you know, the vision board is something that’s physical.

You stick it on the wall and voila 

Jenn: exactly, exactly. And it’s definitely something that I know at one point I was in my early twenties and I went to a five day like personal development workshop. And at the end of it, they were. [00:13:00] Picture what you’re going to be doing in five years from now. And I completely drew a blank.

And because at that point I was surprised I was still standing. And then on my I think I was around 25 when that happened. And then on my 30th birthday, that weekend, I had an opportunity to work in Europe and I’m on the train from cologne, Germany to Paris. And I get it checked into my hotel room and I just cry because I couldn’t imagine being able to live the life I wanted to live to be able to even see Paris, to let alone live till I was 30.

And it’s even if you can’t picture it right now, knowing that. You’re not alone in that you can get through it [00:14:00] as my mom has always said. And it does help sometimes. Not always, but this too shall pass. And that’s where I lean into a higher power of knowing that if I keep showing up, even if I don’t have the answers, it will work out.

And I love how you keep bringing up spirituality, because I think that’s something that I, at least on shit you don’t wanna talk about. We don’t talk about it very often because I myself believe in ju in a higher power, not necessarily a title or anything, but, and it can be tricky bringing those type of topics up with people and not putting in my own views with it.

so, well, I appreciate that. You talk 

De’Vannon: about. I don’t see anything wrong with mixing in your own views, but you know, when it comes to higher power, you know, I, I [00:15:00] believe in YWE the God of the Hebrews, you know, what, whatever you wanna call him. But I, I always remember, you know, you know, the story of Moses when he’s on the side of the mountain and he’s first really meets God for real.

And he wants to identify God, and he’s asking him, who are you? You know, what category shall I put you in? How shall I address you or whatever. And the Lord told him, you know, I am that I am, which means in that moment, God was not necessarily ascribing to any sort of title or name or whatever, because any title that we can give to him is too small.

Anyway. So the ones that we have are just a negotiation of God on our part, you know, to help us because we need, you know, do you know, to always have something in a category that we can understand. So. She needs to, we need to, she has to be a woman. She can’t be non-binary, she can’t be transgender. You gotta be straight.

You know, it’s other about humans, you know, in order for [00:16:00] us to feel comfortable, we have to know how do we classify you? Where do we put you? Mm-hmm you know, and so, so sure if you’re higher power has no name. Okay. , it’s something we’ve seen before about that. So 

Jenn: I love that. I love that. And I love how welcoming you are with that, because it’s, it’s not a conversation that I get to have very often.

De’Vannon: Oh, but you did, to an extent with Mr. John Vanna yes. Of a cult called cult of Christianity podcast. And I’m gonna be interviewing him on Friday, but yes, that’s the one show though that I am gonna pick your brain about towards the end of this interview. Okay. Just to kind of, you know, give people a little taste test of the flavor of the, a, of like, of an actual show.

Yeah. And then we go from there. So this whole being locked up in solitary confinement as a [00:17:00] kid, first of all, I’m sorry that it happened. I’m just gonna say in advance, I’m sorry for everything bad that happened to you. That we’re gonna talk about because it’s quite a lot of shit so, okay. Couple of things.

So you said your friend. Would talk to you. I’m imagining that there’s some sort of like vent or a window to this room you’re locked up in. How was she able to access you? Because I’m assuming she didn’t just Walt sit down the hall through the house. 

Jenn: No, she didn’t. It, so I lived in a three bedroom ranch.

I would probably call it a two and a half bedroom ranch house. It, the, the room was pretty small and it had one window. And what would happen is my dad would throw, I grew up in Phoenix up until the age of eight and we, well, he would throw pool parties all the time in the back. And then she would go through the side of the house [00:18:00] and talk to me through the window.

So. I would be able to open the screen the window a little bit to hear her and talk to her for a little bit until normally it was her mom trying to get her, luckily because her dad is not nice. Like my dad. And at that time, my mom was very, very

like brainwashed by my dad. I mean, he was, he was physically abusive, emotionally abusive to her, very narcissistic gas lighting that my mom ended up being physically and emotionally abusive to me in the long run yet. She never wanted to do it. It was like I ended up being her only outlet. So it’s been a lot easier to forgive her.

I also have forgiven my dad. At the same time, I choose not to have a [00:19:00] relationship with him because you can forgive and still keep a boundary. And that boundary is what I need to not have that toxic individual in my life. 

De’Vannon: Okay. I’m all further forgive. This is the boundaries there’s family member right now.

Who’s cut off because they don’t know how to talk. Talk to me and treat me right. So am I better? Don’t have time for all that, cause I’m not gonna hurt myself over saying angry at that person. But at the same time, I don’t

appreciate you doing that all the time about people getting over this addiction to family. So if it’s blood family, it’s not serving you, dad, sister, brother, cousin, fuck them. Get you a chosen family. You don’t have to deal with that shit from them. Because I’m, I’m happy you explain it about your mom, cuz when you told me her quote, this two show pass, I wrote that down because I was trying to [00:20:00]reconcile in my head.

How in the hell you were being abused in this household and yet she has this nice flower reword from the Hebrew Bible here. This is from Isaiah who said this in the book of Isaiah, cuz she’s, he’s preaching to you the Hebrew scriptures while you’re being, you know, abused and locked up in the room. But you know, you explain just now like how she was going through everything.


Jenn: So it’s also very complex, like even looking at it to this point of like in, after many years of therapy and being in a very stable relationship now for myself has taught me a lot about my mom too, which may sound weird. I’m an only kid and I feel like the older I get the easier it is to understand my mom, because I’m almost the age that she was when she had me.

And I say that in [00:21:00] the fact that I’m learning that when I get very, very upset of like if my partner and I fight and it’s a horrible fight, I may, majority of the time will black out the event, but I know what I felt. And it took me a long time to realize that that’s what happened to my mom too. Of it’s a coping mechanism.

It’s where you detach yourself or people may. I don’t remember what the term is, but you actually like step out of yourself and see it happening to you. So it’s happening to you instead of you doing it. And I think that’s what my mom went through quite a bit because I I’m bipolar type too. I have depression, I have [00:22:00] anxiety.

I have ADHD. I am also dyslexic. So it’s just a, and PTSD. It is a very fun bunch. And I say that in the fact that there will be times where there’s too many noises going on at once. Like a friend was pulling out of my grandmother’s driveway, the music was playing. She was talking to me, there was a car coming down the street and she was about to pull out.

She had plenty of room, but I was like, stop the car. You have to stop the car. And she’s like, why? And I’m like, I can’t breathe. And it’s because I was going into a panic attack. I was, it was too much stimulation all at once that I couldn’t comprehend what was going on. And I know that my mom has dealt with panic attacks her entire life.

And yes, it was a different generation, but my dad would smack her in the [00:23:00] ear to try to get her to snap out of it. He would dump, like go fill five gallon buckets and pour them over her over and over and over again. He’s pushed her downstairs. He’s he conditioned her to think that she was nothing. And he isolated her as well, where I was isolated in my room.

She was being isolated from all of her friends and family. He, for example, I didn’t meet my family in Colorado until I was. 19. I think like I have a memory or two when I was under five and then I’d never met them again till I was older. And it was because my dad would tell this side of the family. So this is his family in Colorado that my mom and I want nothing to do with them that they can’t stand, we can’t stand them.

And then he would come back and tell my mom and I, that we’re unloved. No one [00:24:00] will love me. He’s only going because he has to go. And so my mom really started believing that she was unloved. And my dad also a Barry’s Lynn that I have a hard time with religion at this time where this is all happening is my dad.

I feel that my dad joined the Mormon church for power, not for good. And when my mom has gone to the church for help. They didn’t listen to her because my dad was this almighty cool dude. And the same thing happened to me when I tried to get help from my mom, no one believed me. And it’s the type of thing that it’s taken a lot of work yet, even though my mom and I have, she is very conservative and religious and hates the podcast half the time and [00:25:00] loves it the other half.

And I’m just like, okay, mom, just, we’re not gonna talk about anything. Yet at the same time, we do get into these very big debates of for example, about Juneteenth. She was like, I think it’s stupid holiday. And I was like, why? It is one of the most important holidays that we need to stop whitewashing history and.

Getting her to start thinking about it, made it, so that way eventually she understood and appreciated why Juneteenth was a holiday and that growth that I see in my mom, she has her ways yet she’s still open to learning about other things and also has worked incredibly hard on being someone that cares for me without she’s not looking for a return on investment, [00:26:00] basically where they’re at a point that is what she was doing.

If she didn’t get anything at it out of it, she wouldn’t do it. My dad to this day is definitely for the ROI. If he can’t control it or get something out of it, he will just throw a tantrum and try to get control. 

De’Vannon: The way you speak of him, reminds me there’s a, a documentary called keep sweet prey. And that is on Netflix.

And it Chronicles the fellowship of a latter day saints. The Jeff’s guys and all of that, that of course is an offshoot from Mormonism. Yeah. They became so extreme. I think even the Mormons was like, God damn, you know? Yeah, damn. And so, but it talks about that, how they suppress the women. And of course they’re having sex with these 11, 12 year old girls and getting them pregnant.

And then when the women, a few of them dare to try to complain, then of course it’s always the woman’s fault. She doesn’t know what she’s talking [00:27:00] about. The women are stupid, you know, they’re cut off from everybody and stuff like that. And it’s unfortunate that it makes God look bad in a way, because people until a person becomes spiritually mature, they will conflate.

Church, religion and God, when in fact those three things are completely separate. A church is just a building. You go to . And so you don’t, you know, again, churches came about, because back in the old Testament, people wanted to be like the other nations around them. God was perfectly cool. Just like hanging out his tents and hanging out in people’s hearts is really what he wants, but they pushed the issue on this whole building.

And God being super flexible, worked with humans and gave them, you know, let them build these churches, but he wasn’t really trying to have all that from the beginning. And then religion is all man made all of these different denominations from the beginning. People were either you believed in God or you didn’t there wasn’t a [00:28:00] Christian way in a Catholic way, in a fucking Baptist way, in an AME way.

Wasn’t all of that. You know, as I say that the further I get away from churches and religion, the closer I get to God. And so, but I understand it is, is a bitch of a process, especially once you’ve been hurt and received trauma from a church of all places or watch somebody you love go through hurt to get back to good spiritually because you know, you look at the church, the church hurt people, you know, where’s God, and all this, it takes a while, but you can overcome it.

You know, whoever it is. I say, you, during this interview, I’m not actually talking to you. I know I got you talking to you and the whole world, all 8.7 billion people, however, oh, geez. So, okay. So I just, you can’t imagine, like when you say solitary confinement just reminds me of the times [00:29:00] that I’ve been locked up in jail and just knowing that the world is going on around you mm-hmm you cannot be a part of it.

Is like a terror in and of itself. So I imagine you in that room, hearing the parties and hearing the music and the noise, and you can’t be a part of it, it sucks to be that close to something. And you have a wall standing in between you being in jail sucks. And so let me get, let me get more more you, how shall I say more granular, more intense with you here?

Cause she, you know what I, I think I’m gonna read, I’m gonna read your bio that’s okay. Because it’s such a well written bio, so, and it will be of course included the show notes. And of course it is on her website, which will also go in the show notes, but it. Shit two. [00:30:00] Talk about.com, which is the number two.

I’m also gonna put her link treat and show notes as well. But let me read this bio to y’all it’s story time y’all should have bought my drag.

So it says Jen has a story of her own. As a child, she suffered solitary confinement, physical abuse, mental abuse, sexual abuse, rape divorce, abortion, cutting, and suicide attempts. Her turbulent background is forged a path to help those who are suffering ignored and silenced. Shit, you don’t wanna talk about is a place.

People can come to find hope and healing to know they are not alone enough. Finally be heard. Clearly Jen’s been through plenty of shit. Most people probably don’t want to even acknowledge, let alone talk about, she thought she dealt with her past, but brain surgery in November, 2020 unleash [00:31:00] just tsunami of memories that could not be ignored.

Honey, working through trauma, depression, anxiety, bipolar type two in eight, the D to the age to the D will be a lifelong journey. Jen strives to break the stigma of shit you don’t talk about and turn it into shit. You do talk about. 

Jenn: I’m like trying not to smile the entire time you’re talking about this.

Like, I’ve I’m just gonna steal this clip. And at some point I’m putting like that part of it on TikTok, just as a heads up like that is going on, my TikTok 

De’Vannon: do with it, what you will, it’s like, it’s like a single episode that probably be done on your journey to deal with each one of these things. But tell me about the one thing that I know on this list would piss every Republican off the abortion.[00:32:00]

Jenn: Yeah. So I’ve actually had two of them. The, the I’m gonna go with a second one first because I was heartbroken over that one. It was I had an I U D and my I U D failed and the person. I was with, and I’m still with I could see him. He would be an amazing father. I fell in love with him while we worked together and just seeing how his leadership and how kind he is and how well he takes care of his fam, how well, and he puts up with me, like, he’s just like such an incredible human that it broke my heart.

When luckily my doctor and my gynecologist, they [00:33:00] they’re friends. That’s actually how I got the referral. They both got on the phone with me at the same time. And they were like, Jen, if, if you keep, if you take this to term, either you could die, the baby could die, or both of you could die. The likelihood of you, both living with where the I U D implanted itself is not likely that.

You’ll be able to live and taking out the I U D will terminate the pregnancy. And I say that in the fact of it’s like, I had a choice, but I didn’t have a choice that one I’ve never wanted to have kids. And Tyler doesn’t want kids either. It’s, I’ve always, even since a young, young child, I have always wanted to adopt, I want every possible person to adopt of every age, like ever, [00:34:00] like this is my big lifelong dream.

And so it was very conflicting in the fact of I wanted it yet. Didn’t want it, but couldn’t have it. It was a very, very different emotional experience than my first termination. My first termination. It was very interesting. I had a group of three friends and three friends plus me. So four of us, and we would all talk about it in like high school that, you know, if we ever got pregnant, that we would take it to term, we would never want an abortion.

And then, and then it happens to you and you’re an abusive relationship. And you can’t imagine this kid [00:35:00] being somebody’s child and picturing them going through worse things than you went through as a child.

It was the type of thing that at that point in my life, I was still very much trained to be in very toxic relationships because that is what I grew up in. I. I always, always strive to get my father’s approval in everything that the relationship I was in, I was doing the same thing. It was, I put this guy on a pedestal.

Yes. He was a PhD student. Yes. He was from China. Yes. He’s like really hot and six two, but he wasn’t the coolest human on the inside. And it was not only was he like yelling at me that I got pregnant. It’s like, it’s not my fault. It wasn’t like I [00:36:00] was trying to get pregnant. And when you go to get a termination, you’re asked, is anyone forcing you to do this?

Because your partner’s not allowed in the room with you. And I get why they’re asking it yet at the same time.

I it’s not like they planned parenthood or anybody or society in general is gonna do anything, even if I was forced, because it’s not like they’re going to go arrest him, which that would just fuck up his life. And I’m like, what would that do? They’re not gonna let me raise on my own because of parental rights.

It’s it was definitely a different, a different situation [00:37:00] and a different type of guilt than the, the second one yet the first one, it wasn’t the guilt of necessarily getting the termination. It was like getting. It done being with this human and possibly putting a child at risk yet at the same time, I luckily had the same primary care doctor.

She broke it down for me and she’s like, Jen, it sells at this point, it sells, it’s nothing it’s just sells. And that really did help me comprehend what was happening because my body, like I got COVID and I was like, literally like thought I got hit by a bus. I get sick. Like if I get a cold, I’ll get bronchitis because of my asthma.

I’m a pansy [00:38:00] when it comes to like anything medical. And so the effects of the pregnancy hit me faster than it can other women or those who have, can get pregnant. I do wanna say that, but it definitely.

It was scary each time going to planned parenthood to people that were incredibly kind there and them having to be outside with security, being able, because there were people out there threatening, threatening me, just like they were threatening other people, just going to go get birth control. And I honestly, I wish I could just tell.

I get, I get people are pro-life like, you want to see other, like people succeed yet. Our system is very broken because the people that we have right now, [00:39:00] we have so many systemic issues that I, I would’ve been in a very bad situation if I took it to term yet. Now we’re being told in so many different states that.

It’s not our choice. And that terrifies me because it’s like my grandfather having control of my body. But my grandfather wouldn’t, you know, be here to take care of the baby. He wouldn’t be here to give me money for the baby. And I feel like that’s what it is. It’s some old white dude just saying, yeah, you gotta keep it.

And it’s like, I don’t know. This one is hard for me too, because it does remind me a lot about religion in the fact of, in many religions and humankind growing up, you know, as humankind [00:40:00]grows up there was where, you know, men wanted to propagate. They were like, let me, you know, get all the bitches pregnant.

And I feel like that’s almost what’s happening again. Is. Yet, like back in the day, at least from what I’ve seen from studies is that there was a sense of somehow for community to help raise the child when that happened. And I don’t think back then they really, you know, had abortions, but it’s like, they want that to happen again yet, not give these pregnant humans, the resources, and they’re not giving the humans that currently don’t have resources, accessibility.

There are too many communities and children that even in the us, don’t have a safe roof over their head and are scary neighborhoods. And I am [00:41:00] grateful that I did both of them because it gave me the strength and understanding of what individuals may go through when they choose to have an abortion.

De’Vannon: Okay, so good. God girl. So let me see how I’m gonna come at this. So, you know, religion is, religion is a thing which can be forced, but always like to remind people that this is the importance of getting to know God for yourself. Mm-hmm because God is not a forceful being. And the best example that I have of this is the whole road to Damas conversion story.

Now, whenever this is preached, people usually preach it because this person was converted and Jesus appeared to him in the shining light. And there was much rejoicing. But what I get out of this story is. Saw the character in question here was [00:42:00] trying to do before Jesus cock blocked him. What he did was he went and got the religious leaders, lawmakers of the land, the San Hedron to give him political and legal power to persecute people who were not living according to how he thought they should be living.

It’s no different than what Republicans are doing today. And then on the, on his wages was like, no, bitch, I rebuke you stop. I did not commission you to go and force people in chains and in, and through threats to live, according to what you consider to be righteous, it’s no different than what Republicans are doing.

They get all, and the people hanging outside the abortion clinics, trying to threaten you. They’ve gotten all spun up on their emotions and they’ve gotten this confused with thinking that it’s the voice of God and really it’s just their own head talking to them. And now they’ve gone on all these witch hunts.

and everything like that. But the Lord, you know, has already told [00:43:00] them, you know, you can do all these things and try to persecute all these people. But if you never know me, then you’re not going to be able to enter into my rest when you die. So it’s not about going out and trying to change the world.

It’s about trying to get close to God and these Republicans and these people hanging outside the abortion clinic wouldn’t know God, if he walked up and stood in front of them, they know the first thing about spiritual living. And so, so I like to throw that out there because I know how easy it is to see these people who.

Religion in the name of God, doing things like this that are totally not nice and it can be confusing, but the only way you can overcome that is to get to know God for yourself. You 

Jenn: know, I’m just giggling, cuz you’re doing the finger pointing as you’re talking, which just like reminds me of somebody that’s like super religious.

Like, you know, when they’re like pointing at you. I, I will say for myself, I know that [00:44:00]there’s a distinction I’m personally like. And so when I mention it, I, I specifically do try to say religion, not like God, like it reminds me of, you know, religion and like there’s so many different, like for change to happen.

Like for some reason there’s we have so much history of just humans wanting power and mostly. Is white dudes and Catholicism and colonialization the entire world. Yet, that doesn’t mean that, you know, all of Britain is bad. You know, it’s not, all of Catholicism is bad, it’s not, you know, all religions are bad.

It is religion as a whole is I personally struggle with it [00:45:00] and I’m finding my own path to a higher power, especially something that I really, really struggle with. And this does have a bit to do with the abortions, but yet at the same time, not of one of my best friends passed away when I was 15 and I she passed away in November and in.

February. I tried to take my own life and all I could say was why didn’t she live? And I did. And it’s very, very difficult for me. And I, I would say a lot of people of like, why things happen like that? Why do these traumas happen? And I think a lot of it is we [00:46:00] can’t just blame a higher power. There are things out of control.

There are things that need to happen to because become who we’re meant to be. And a lot of those things are shit. You don’t wanna talk about so it’s. That’s why I, I know I, I said earlier that I struggled to talk about religion because it’s still a very unknown for me yet. I am working on finding my own spirituality because it does help me center myself believing in something.

De’Vannon: Well, I think you’re on the, the best path because to me, the whole point of, of spirituality is to have a personal relationship to God. And so when you say that you’re finding your own path, I think that that’s the whole point. I view churches in this whole instructional way of approaching God. Okay.

That’s a starting point, but I believe people [00:47:00] should graduate from the need to go to church. And stuff like that. Cuz church is a schoolhouse is a place where you go to learn shit. There’s no other school that you are expected to stay in for the rest of your fucking life. Yeah. You know, at some point you’ve gotta get close enough to God where you can be like, all right, church, thanks to the foundation.

Bye bitches. I’m just gonna go be with God now. Cuz if you don’t do it now you’re gonna do when you die. Cause you cannot, can’t stay attached to the church’s nipple forever. I mean, they want you to cause they want your fucking money, but, and I don’t mean that negatively or positively, but it’s just true.

They’re an entity. They need fucking money to stay around. Yeah. And bitches get to graduating on their asses and it’s gonna put their bottom line in jeopardy. So I don’t have an agenda of what I’m telling you. I’m just trying to get you super free. So But I think that what you’re doing is, is perfect.

Like I want to find a way to God for myself and I just wanna be with him or her or they, however it is you choose to refer [00:48:00] her power. And I don’t want to have a church or an old white wrinkly man telling me how to do it. I’ll just take it from here. Thank you very much. I think, I think that’s perfect.

Jenn: and, and to that point, something that I do wanna mention that I don’t know if it’ll help anybody else, but a few years ago I was at a different personal development course. I’ve been to a lot of those and I met someone named TA and I just went tall, ALA just cuz it rhymed. And it made me happy that when things rhyme and she’s like, that’s cute.

But a is God, I was like, whoa. Oh, oops, my bad. And it. And she’s Muslim and that’s where she’s she’s from. Actually I don’t remember where she’s from, but ever since that point, for some reason, if I say ALA, [00:49:00] it feels safe. If I say, God, it doesn’t. And I think it is the terminology of the association with the word, not with the, the higher power.

And I wanna mention that to like anybody listening, because if you’re struggling with just like finding your way through this shit, and you wanna hire power, you don’t have to call them God. There are other terms for them. It could be higher spirit. It could be boss lady. It could be, you know, whatever is gonna make it easier for you to know that somebody has your back.

De’Vannon: Amen. And amen. So when, when you said you had the suicide attempt, was it does this have anything to do with you fearing, like you wouldn’t live past 30 or was that like mental health thing? Is there a correlation there is, are those two separate things? [00:50:00]

video1201517871: There’s 

Jenn: a correlation yet? It would be easier to tell you after the rest of my story, like out of all the other pieces, because me not thinking that I would live till 30 sprouted from such a young age of, I don’t even remember when I just never thought I would live very long.

And by the time I was 15 having a suicide attempt and wondering why I lived, I just figured I would die soon. 

De’Vannon: How did you try to kill yourself? 

Jenn: Pills. and I sh I technically should have died. I went, I went home and I gave my mom a hug and kissed goodnight for the first time in like a really long time.

And I [00:51:00] told the cats goodnight. We had two cats and I went to the bathroom and I had this giant bottle of medication and I had a water bottle and like a gallon water. And I just started pouring them in my mouth and then chugging pouring in my mouth and chugging. And at that point I sat there for a minute and the world already started getting dizzy.

And so I stumbled into my room and I just fell on my back and I woke up in the morning. Because my mom’s like, Hey, you need to get up for school. And she’s like, oh shit, you’re sick. Never mind I’ll call in for you because I just had white paste all over me, which falling asleep on my back and puking many, many times someone can die from that.

By suffocating on their own vomit. And I lived, and [00:52:00] my mom, I was always sick. I mean, I’m sick all the time anyway, but I was really sick all the time then. And it was, that happened on a Wednesday and I didn’t get to the hospital until Sunday because I didn’t tell my mom what happened. She just was like, you’re sick.

Okay. Whatever. And finally she saw I wasn’t getting better. So she took me to the ER and I’m going in and out of consciousness. And I still can’t keep anything down at this point. And. The nurses told my mom that I have hepatitis C, which is, I guess is not like hepatitis a and B I don’t know enough about them, but it’s like, can be like a serious cold, but not like I don’t understand it.

All I know is that’s what happened. And my mom went to call some of my friends let them know because it can be very contagious. And that’s when I told the nurse that I took the Tylenol [00:53:00]and they charge started checking my liver and they were gonna Lifelight me down to I, at this point, I’m in Idaho.

They were gonna Lifelight me down to salt lake for a liver transplant. And for some reason they couldn’t do it that night. They were planning on doing it. First thing in the morning, they checked all my numbers again, and I was fine. Like it never happened.

De’Vannon: Do you think you received a miracle.

Jenn: I think that’s a very complex question to answer. I,

I think that

a few years after that, I worked at a restaurant where this friend’s name was our letter that passed away a few months beforehand. And [00:54:00] our letter was seriously, one of the best humans in the entire world. And her mom came into this restaurant that I was a hostess at, and it’s been years, I’m a senior in high school and she just like starts crying when she sees me.

And she’s like, Jen, you have to promise me that you will do something big in the world because their letter couldn’t and. It’s the type of thing that I’ve learned that yes, I’ve gone through a lot of shit, but at the same time, I do have opportunities and privileges that others don’t and I can give them a platform.

I can be an advocate. I can be an ally because nobody deserves to go through this shit and we all need help. And [00:55:00] I don’t know if it was just our letter, you know, hanging out and you know, going like, bitch, you’re not gonna die. She would say something like that. or a miracle or whatnot, but it’s definitely something that I do my best to.

Remember now that if I don’t take care of myself, I can’t take care of everyone else. And it’s can be incredibly lonely wanting to strive to help. And yet knowing that you can’t help everybody in the world, which I feel like you, you might understand in the fact of like your book was, you asked me if I found any of it cathartic.

And it was, it was knowing that like when your mom kept [00:56:00] showing up, even though like in the book, at least it sounded like you didn’t always like reply to her very nicely or treat her nicely at that time. And it, it was cathartic in the fact that my father-in-law who. Has been, was a meth addict for 30 years, moved in with us last year.

And he’s been clean for over a year now. And it’s these type of things that I’m like, you know, if I didn’t go through this shit, I wouldn’t have been able to handle my father-in-law living with us. I wouldn’t have been able to, you know, talk about Juneteenth with my mom. And I’m, I’m not trying to say this as like, oh goodness, I heard this term the other day value preaching or something like that, where like, people are like, I’m doing this.

So you should feel like, so sorry for me. I’m [00:57:00] like, oh God, that is a really annoying thing. But it’s like, if we go through shit, there was a reason for it. We just have to find it 

De’Vannon: true. We’ve got to be an Alchemist and turn it from one form of matter into another. So I love that book.

Which one I’m I’m thinking of the anime full metal Alchemist. 

Jenn: Oh no. The Alchemist is actually an incredible book. And from Pablo, like Alta, it could be, I don’t I’m do not quote me on that. I’m looking it up right now. It’s like, seriously, one of the best books. It is Paul Coelho. We’re gonna go with that.

It’s by a Brazilian author, which was actually first [00:58:00] published in 1988 and has been translated in so many languages. And it is, I think, have you ever read it? I’m guessing you haven’t read it. You should read. It is a It’s about a boy seeking treasure and that’s all I’m gonna say. And there’s a much bigger picture in it that you, I feel like would absolutely love and enjoy.

De’Vannon: If the winds below in my favor for that, then I shall read it. One day I will tuck it right back in the back of my nogging and then if it makes its way to the front, then it’s meant to be thank you for the suggestion. So do you still have hepatitis C or was it like a childhood thing? 

Jenn: I never actually had it.

It was my, all the liver failure was from my taking the pills. 

De’Vannon: Gotcha. So, [00:59:00] and what we’re going to do since we’re nearing the end of our hour here, I’m going to invite you to come back on the show because there’s some stuff that I wanted to talk about. Like, like your own history of homelessness. I wanted to get, get into those TikTok videos too.

When you did one on June team, you did one about being an, an LGBTQIA plus ally. That was the one that you were crying and talking about the anxiety and the depression. And then I wanted to get more into like the ADHD and the bipolar type two because of your passion about speaking. So those are the things that I wanna have you back on to cover the next time.

Yay. And so, but I still wanted to, so to close out, I wanted to talk about a boy over at the call of Christianity. Oh, yes. Yes. So I wanted to read some of the topics of some of the titles from your show, which I mentioned at the beginning of this one, just so people can get a feel [01:00:00] for the flavor. So the most recent one that came out is called raise the lie.

There’s another one called repeatedly dead dealing with self hatred. Andralia what’s endophilia gay guys.

That’s it then 

Jenn: it has a better like proper term then, but I think it is gay men and

Celia meaning is oh no, it is just wait, showing pre preference for males or humans as distinguished from animals. It’s normally showing a preference for males. So men showing a preference for males. Yeah. 

De’Vannon: So they can get into all kind of things like toxic masculinity and stuff like that too.

Jenn: [01:01:00] Oh yeah. Like they’re pride month. That was a fun one.

That, that was a fun one that. We talked about a lot of shit that month 

De’Vannon: mm-hmm I love on your website, you have a little colorful pride logo on some of the episodes that, that looked like they were pride, distinct, distinct 

Jenn: for pride. Yes. I need to switch my, the logo back on so many things, because I just really liked the logo being so colorful, but I’m at the same time, I’m like, Jen, you have to put it back to the normal logo.


De’Vannon: keep the color on my, on my down under apparel website, my clothing website, E each year we do pride sale each year up until now. It’s been through June, but I couldn’t bring myself to end it because of everything that’s going on and how much a love, I feel like needs to just be proliferated and just infused into the world.

I was like, you know what? I don’t think pride needs to end because June is over. And so, you know what? I’m just gonna leave the cell up [01:02:00] until I feel like taking it down. And I don’t know when that’ll be. And so. So cult of Christianity John veer you know, he has his own podcast and everything like that.

So just as we get ready to close here, just tell me about like your experience with that, because I think it’s so interesting, cuz religion is one of the things I love talking about the most mm-hmm , it’s something that you’re struggling with and then we have the call to Christianity bringing us to like a meeting point.

So how was your experience with that episode? 

Jenn: I would say that it was a,

Hmm. Validating in the fact of, so I asked John to go a little bit out of his wheelhouse to kind of go [01:03:00] over quickly, a brief history of religion. And more distinctly Christianity. And I think he did a fabulous job doing so it was hard because it really does show how religion and so much of religion is.

And notice I’m saying religion, not God mm-hmm , but religion is based off of men in power. And it was very, very validating hearing that. And I ended up actually cutting that episode short because on shit, you know, I wanna talk about, I wanna give people talk about this shit in a way to share the knowledge, not necessarily my opinion.

And so I’m actually gonna be having somebody come on. That is [01:04:00] Is Christian and goes to multiple different denominations. And like, just because it is the type of thing that we all have our own spiritual path, I’ve been so curious about so many different religions. That’s also, I wanna have all sorts of religions on the podcast yet.

It was very, very difficult not to be like amen to everything John was saying and fuck religion, but I didn’t. And that was my experience with it because it was

interesting of how so much of history is only written by those. I mean, it makes sense, but history is written by those who win and those who overpower others. So the story of religion is very different than what. [01:05:00] A higher power may have wanted. 

De’Vannon: That’s all true. And I, I love this may sound like sadistic and shit, but I love the way God doesn’t necessarily make it super easy for us to hit it.

I mean, it’s there, I mean, for God sake, the internet and everything, if you really wanna look cause I’m shit up and fact check it, you can. Yeah. I love the way that it’s kind of riddled. And tainted like that because through the struggle of reaching for God, it’s like a, it’s like a plant that’s planted in dirt, but it has a climate’s way out or butterfly coming out of its cocoon.

It’s not an easy process, but like you stated earlier, we need that struggle to turn us into who we’re going to be. And so God does it. It’s easy for us to get to God, but we may have to cipher through some bullshit, you know, to really get clarity on him. But I think it’s like that because he wants to see if we really give a fuck enough about him to, [01:06:00] to try cuz we’ll go for anything hard in life money.

Sex relationships, our children, that many people put on pedestals, our pets, which many people put on pedestals, you know, I do. And I’m my, dog’s 

Jenn: the cutest in the world. I’m 

De’Vannon: sure that he or she or they are, but, you know, but what I’m saying is I love it because you know, just too many times people get real casual with spiritual stuff and they’re like, well, we’ll get to it one day or I’ll just twirl through church on Sunday for an hour that you’d cut it.

I’m more like, I’m like you know, maybe not, you know, if you really, really trying to get close. And so, so I’m happy you have that conversation with oh, good old John. And what you’re saying is true, and I’m gonna be talking with Barry Bowen from the Trinity foundation, which investigates churches and PR pastors and stuff like that.

And we’re gonna talk about the money trail that follows the people [01:07:00] who interpret the Bible. Now and how it, how it’s behind the scenes is quite corrupt. I think it’s quite corrupt. They have yet to do the interview, but because because I’ve been wondering for a while, you know, who the fuck interprets the Bible, you know, I know when they sit down and do it, they don’t invite trans people and black people and indigenous people.

It’s still old fucking white people, you know, doing it all. So the last thing I’ll say before we wrap this up to echo your point, there’s this I’m a documentary who I just consume them like a, like a porn store consumes Dick. I’m telling you, I just can’t get enough. And so ghetto, cock consumption. And so so there’s a book of queer that is on discovery.

It’s the five episode thing and they get into the true history. So they tell us about how Abraham Lincoln was big, old queer, you know, and everybody, and all these people you didn’t think. And even king [01:08:00] James himself, according to the book of queer, the same person, the king James version of the Bible is the one I’m talking about.

Apparently he loved the boys too. And so, so I, I suggest people to check it out, but the whole point of what they was saying is that the same people who commissioned this whole transcription of the Bible were like not straight themselves. Mm-hmm . And then@overviewbible.com, my friend Jeffrey Crans runs that website.

And then he gets into like historical topics about the Bible. There’s one video of his, I watched today really gets in the detail about how, how, like it took about 500 years of really for the Bible to come to be what it is, how there’s really no original text of it left. You know, it gets into like the subject, you know, the subjectivity of the nature of it, who commissioned at the Bible, how the Catholics had their 73 books.

And then the, the Protestants had their 66 books, you [01:09:00] know, you know how it was really not a set in stones thing. Right. So that’s all I have to say about it. I’m looking forward to speaking with John. I’ve loved talking to you for this first time around. I’m looking forward to doing it again, bitch. Is there anything else you would like to say to the world?

Jenn: Yes on the mental health aspect. On my Twitter, I host a Twitter space every Wednesday at 9:00 AM, Pacific noon Eastern to talk about all of these NeuroD diversities. A lot of it is coming from the tech world, but I specifically mentioned that because a lot of times we don’t always know how to deal with NeuroD diversities, which is like bipolar ADHD dyslexia, you know, these not being [01:10:00]atypical and the struggles.

And that is I think, a great spot to learn more. About it without having to, like, you can ask a question and I feel like Twitter is kind of a cool space to do so. Cause you don’t need to be as public about it, you know, to get answers. So definitely suggest checking that out. And it’s on my personal Twitter, which is Jen genau, Jen gen.

De’Vannon: Okay. I’ll be sure we include all of that in the show notes. Thank you so much for coming on and we look forward to filming part two. Yay. Thank you.

Thank you all so much for taking time to listen to the sex drugs in Jesus podcast. It really means everything to me. Look, if you love the show, [01:11:00] you can find more information and resources at SexDrugsAndJesus.com or wherever you listen to your podcast. Feel free to reach out to me directly at DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com and on Twitter and Facebook as well.

My name is De’Vannon and it’s been wonderful being your host today and just remember that everything is gonna be right.


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